11.17.09
Posted in Advice, Atheist Generosity, Churches, Coming Out, Education, General, Richard Wade at 11:30 am by Richard Wade
Dear Richard,
I am a great admirer of the eloquent yet simple advice you give on Friendly Atheist. I have been “out” as an atheist for about one year now. I work in a Divinity Faculty, where I am surrounded by liberal, thoughtful, sophisticated religious believers, and recently I have been having thoughts about becoming an ordained minister in the Anglican Church. I feel that this job would give me personal fulfillment and allow me to do what I really want to do in my life, which is to, well, ‘minister’ to people’s needs, to be there for them in the hard times and help them celebrate the good times. I believe that religion does not have to be about beliefs, but actions, that it can be a force for good rather than hatred, and that “God” can be useful as a symbol which can provide many different meanings and frameworks for different people. I also believe that I would perhaps be more use to the furthering of reason and tolerance if I were within ‘the system’, promoting religious moderation than simply being an outsider.
My question is: should I pursue this career path, whilst remaining an atheist (or a ‘theological non-realist’ to give it a ‘theologically acceptable’ term)?
I would greatly appreciate your advice on this issue, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Best wishes,
Conflicted
Dear Conflicted,
You’ve expressed two goals that you would like to accomplish in your life. One is to “attend to the wants and needs of others, to give aid or service,” which is one of the definitions of the verb “to minister.” Most people would agree that that is a very noble and admirable desire.
Your other goal is to bring about positive change in the church, making it more responsive to a wider range of people’s needs, and to improve its influence on society; to in a way, humanize it. Many people would approve of that as well.
However, your proposed method poses some ethical and pragmatic difficulties.
It isn’t clear from your letter, but I’m going to assume that if you were to apply to the ministry, you would do so openly as an atheist, just as you are now at your workplace. I’m assuming this because I think you know you wouldn’t be able to cover up your lack of belief for very long.
There are clerics who become free of their faith while they are ministering to their flocks. Many leave the clergy, some famously, because they cannot abide the conflict of promoting and reassuring beliefs in others that they no longer hold for themselves. They see it as hypocrisy, and it is too painful for them. An unknown number of these people continue on in their ministry as secret apostates, keeping up a deception for either selfish or noble reasons. Perhaps they just want to keep their jobs, or perhaps they want to keep on helping others somehow, “ministering” in that decent and generous meaning of the verb to which you aspire.
Being secretive about your atheism would pose ethical problems, and being open about your atheism would pose pragmatic problems.
Concealing it would require lying. That by itself is an ethical breach that should not be acceptable to a person who wants to be a professional helper in any capacity. Hiding it would most likely also cause injury to others. Since people look to their ministers for ethical guidance and moral modeling as well as spiritual solace, a closet atheist minister would be running a serious risk of implanting terrible cynicism, bitterness and deep hurt in those who trust in him, once the truth eventually comes out.
Because eventually, it always does.
Being open about your atheism might stop you right at the front door of the Anglican seminary or divinity school. From what I can find in a quick online search, the initial process of “discernment” involves intense and intimate examinations by your own personal priest, a discernment committee, a commission on ministry, a Bishop, and perhaps even a mental health professional. These people will assess the suitability of your intentions, personal history, values, attitudes, ideas, goals,
and your beliefs.
If you don’t believe in their god, they may see you as missing an essential prerequisite. Your openhearted desire to help others and your open-minded desire to bring more breadth, reason and tolerance to the church from the inside may not be enough for them to trust you with either their doctrine or their flock.
Even if you somehow get past all those barriers and become a minister, the hardest questions will come from the people whom you are trying to help. They will look you in the eyes and say, “My little girl died today. Please tell me that she’s going to heaven.” Will you respond with reason, or with the comforting myth they so desperately want to hear you confirm?
Conflicted, I don’t want to extinguish your wonderful longing to be of service to others, to “be there for them in the hard times and help them celebrate the good times” as you so movingly put it, by only listing reasons why your idea may not work.
Perhaps your experience in the divinity faculty and your knowledge of the Anglican Church is extensive, and you know how you could overcome those pragmatic hurdles. I’m certainly no expert on that.
Perhaps you can find ways to reconcile a person’s desire for a reassuring bedtime story with your rational mind’s demands to tell them the truth as you see it. I don’t pretend to be that wise, but I don’t assume that no one else is.
Perhaps also, your broad vision of God and religion, and how you could influence the church from the inside toward embracing more reason, tolerance and moderation is somehow attainable. When people propose lofty aspirations, I never use the word “impossible” because thousands of people have personally amazed me.
However, I can point out that you have other options, other venues for helping people on a personal level. For instance, you sound like you’d make an excellent counselor. That is a broad and varied field, and you don’t necessarily have to specialize too narrowly into one kind of need to fulfill. It has a challenging and interesting process to qualify, just as would the ministry. My years as a counselor were immensely fulfilling. I made a positive difference, and I even saved a few lives. I still get great pleasure from the little bit of service I can offer with this column.
But if the path of the psy does not appeal to you, there are many other ways that you could find satisfaction as well as sustenance by making the world around you a little better than it was before. That is the whole point of life for people like you and me; that we somehow, even in small ways, make a positive difference in others’ lives.
Use your imagination. Your generous spirit can be of great value in so many unexpected ways. Find them all!
Richard
You may send your questions for Richard to 
. All questions will eventually be answered, but not all can be published. There is a large number of requests; please be patient.
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11.15.09
Posted in Coming Out, General at 8:00 am by Hemant Mehta
There are a lot of ways you can come out as an atheist. Many of them result in someone getting very upset. Sometimes, it results in a fight over faith — maybe a debate you don’t want to get into.
What do you do if you want to come out publicly as an atheist but not draw all the negative attention that sometimes comes with it? Is that possible?
Reader Keith is having that dilemma and he’s thinking about the best way to handle it:
After reaching mid-life, I’ve realized I’m pretty tired of being a secret atheist. Not that I pretend to be religious, but when religious topics come up at work or among friends, I tend to clam up and avoid the subject. Lately, though, I’ve started to wonder if that’s the best stance for me to take. I worry that I’m being a coward, and that if I spoke up for myself I might (like you’ve said before) show people by example that atheists are decent people too, and also let other closet atheists know that they are not alone.
One way I’ve thought about addressing this is by announcing my atheism on Facebook (as a friend did recently). But is this too in-your-face?
I want to say to the world that I’m not afraid to be called atheist, and that atheists are all around. I don’t want it to come across as a challenge, like I’m saying “I’m an atheist… take that world!” Especially because the vast majority of my Facebook friends are Christian, and at least half of those are Very Christian (and family members). Most of them probably don’t know I’m an atheist. (I suppose part of my motivation is that I’m reaching a point where I DO want those family members to know — mostly cousins — but I don’t want to talk to them directly about it. That would feel like a confession of a dirty secret! I just want to announce that I’m proud of who I am.
The Facebook thing seems innocuous enough. Is there a better way to be public about your atheism without trying to generate controversy within your family?
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11.13.09
Posted in Advice, Coming Out, General, Richard Wade at 12:00 pm by Richard Wade
Note: To add another layer of anonymity for the letter writer, I have changed his name, as I do for all the writers who sign their letters with their name. I have also altered a few incidental details of his story to make him less identifiable.
I’m interested in your opinion on this matter.
I consider myself a radical Atheist, as Douglas Adams was known to say, he preferred to put the term “radical” there because it conveys the fact that he really meant it. Unfortunately I am also pretty much in the closet with regards to my lack of belief at work.
My problem is at work. My coworker in the next cube over is always ranting and raving about god and country. He’s a stereotypical Glenn Beck viewer, I could very easily envision him disrupting a Town Hall meeting if you get my drift. He thinks President Obama is an evil socialist Muslim from another country who wants to abort all the babies and kill all the grannies. Of course, he thinks atheists are the root of all evil and the problems of our country are caused by our abandoning god. I think he suspects I am an Atheist, perhaps because of the FSM logo on the back of my car. He recently put up a sign on his cabinet that reads “God Bless America” with a flag background. I suspect he is trying to provoke me into a discussion when I have zero interest in having one with him.
It makes for an uncomfortable workplace. I work on computer software so I can do my job with headphones on and I find myself turning the music up lately to drown my coworker out.
My question is, should I say something to him? I’d like to simply ask him to stop. I feel like he is trying to lure me into a discussion of religion just so he can try to evangelize and push his agenda. He has already made it known he has had a run in with HR when he was going around with a sign up sheet to raise money for his anti-abortion group. I personally feel such talk at the office is inappropriate. I think he wants to be a martyr with his loud offensive bullying talk. I suspect he wants me to say something and of course would claim I am somehow oppressing him.
Another wrench in the works is my manager, who can’t go two sentences without dropping a comment affirming his own religiousness. My manager even has a cup in his office from an evangelist college. It’s the kind of place that I would be amazed if they were accredited in any way. I suspect he may be a graduate from there. He also has a bible on his desk. So my manager is a devout Christian and so is his manager. My manager is also known as a cost cutter who has laid people off to save money. I wouldn’t want him to have any reason to fire me because I think he would do so in a heartbeat. If my manager were to find out I was an atheist he would probably take an interest in converting me and it would probably change his opinion of me for the worse.
We work at a pretty large company with an HR department, do you think I should go to HR over my coworker? Am I wrong for wanting him to keep his ill-informed opinions to himself? Should I just suck it up? I have a wife, kids and a mortgage to worry about.
Thanks!
Brett
Dear Brett,
To sum up the strategic situation, your coworker is a childish, boorish, paranoid, evangelizing activist who is annoying you with his loud and distracting blather, your manager is a devout evangelical Christian who uses an axe to protect the company profit margin, and his manager is also a devout Christian. You have a mortgage and a family to support.
I don’t think sucking it up or turning the music in the headphones up even louder will be a lasting solution. It’s just going to wear you down. You need and deserve a comfortable, relaxed atmosphere to do the work you do.
As irksome as you may find the content of Mr. Religious Right Reactionary’s opinions, that is not the issue. He certainly has the right to express his views, but he does not have the right to disturb his neighbors at work. It would be completely legitimate for you to try to quiet the irritating chatter from the next cubicle, but exactly how you do that is very important. Revealing that you are an atheist would not be a good idea at this time and place. I’ll speak to that issue later on.
The big mouth bugs you for two reasons: his political-religious views are noxious, and his constant tirades disrupt your ability to work. Although the first reason is probably the foremost in your mind, the second reason is the one that you should focus on.
I suggest that you begin to make polite requests to your coworker to quiet down always for work-related reasons. Say with a calm, flat tone, “Excuse me, I need to concentrate on my work.” or “Sorry, I gotta get back to work.” or “Can you please keep it down? I’m trying to work.” This will probably have to be repeated many times. Be patient and think of it as a game.
The volume and tone of your voice must remain low and calm, unchanging every time, so practice before you speak to him. It’s important to keep any hint of irritation out of it, because that will only provoke him. He’s looking for a challenge or even a fight, and you don’t want to feed him that.
Don’t touch the subject of his rants with a ten-foot pole. If he or your boss asks you if the specifics of your coworker’s opinions are what you object to, don’t answer that directly, just stick to you how you need to have a peaceful, quiet work environment. You just want him to stop his distracting prattling, period. Always attaching the need to do your work to your requests for him to be quiet makes your requests unassailable in that office. You’re there to work, not to discuss politics, religion, baseball or somebody’s gall bladder surgery. Even your two Bible-brandishing bosses couldn’t argue with that.
Going to HR should be the last resort, but prepare for it from the beginning. Keep a written record of the dates and times that he was disturbing your work, and the exact wording of the work-related polite requests for quiet that you made each time. This will simply help you to see if you’ve given it a fair enough time to have an effect, and if as a last remedy you decide to go to HR, you’ll have documentation that you have tried your best in a reasonable manner to get him to stop. Whether to him or to HR, always emphasize the disruption of your work, NOT the content of his tiresome twaddle.
If it finally has to go to HR, even though you will have taken all the reasonable steps and followed the proper channels, be ready for the poop to hit the propeller. If he wants to play the oppressed martyr, he will. His remarks may become more passive-aggressive, with sneaky barbs and sideways insults in your direction, or he may actually defiantly escalate his political-religious rants, daring you and HR to stop him.
Don’t get suckered into reacting to that. He wants that. Calmly and meticulously stick to your original tactic of polite requests for him to not disturb your work. Keep documenting dates, times and your polite requests, and when it seems like the right time, take it back to HR.
Now to the issue of your atheism and the tension you feel from having to keep your own views carefully concealed. I think that people with jobs should be constantly doing two things: doing their very best at their job, and looking for a better job. Even if the guy shuts up, you’re not working in a comfortable place. Casually socializing with your fellow workers is a healthy part of work, but being driven into a cubicle-within-a-cubicle, such as with your headphones on and the music up loud, or having to be extremely secretive about your own views is not a healthy way to live.
Quietly, daily, start looking around for a better place for you to work and be more free to be yourself. It may take a long time, but just the act of taking assertive steps for benefiting yourself rather than only defending yourself will help you to feel more empowered and in control of your life.
Richard
You may send your questions for Richard to . All questions will eventually be answered, but not all can be published. There is a large number of requests; please be patient.
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11.03.09
Posted in Advice, Churches, Coming Out, General, Richard Wade at 6:00 am by Richard Wade
Bill wrote a long letter that I have edited for space reasons. My paraphrasing is indicated by parentheses. For privacy, I have given him a different name.
Dear Richard,
I’m in a bit of a bind, and I have come to the conclusion that I need to seek out advice from people who lack the religious prejudices that I’ve been indoctrinated with. I appreciate any thoughts you have regarding the following situation.
I’ve been gradually losing my faith over the last couple of years. I was raised in and still attend services at what I would call a hyperconservative church in Tennessee. While I do not believe, I continue to attend out of respect for my wife’s devotion. When we got married, we were both sincere believers, and she still is. As my faith has eroded, I’ve begun to be more vocal in publicly disagreeing with the elders, who are considered the authoritative leaders on all things, at church services. During the past few months, there has been a class studying Genesis through Deuteronomy. I have never studied these books from the perspective of skepticism before.
For example, Deuteronomy 22:13-21 discusses Israelite laws addressing a daughter’s virginity. (These verses relate how if a young husband accuses his young bride of not being a virgin, it must be investigated by her father and the city elders. If she is found to be a virgin, the husband must be fined, whipped and must remain married to her for life, but if she is found to not be a virgin, she must be killed by stoning.)
The teacher and elders said we should teach our daughters to not have sex before marriage because god hates it and he demanded death for it in the past. They said that a few deaths for fornication would solve a lot of our problems with premarital sex in this country.
After hearing the tirade continue for about 5 minutes, I asked the teacher if he would kill his daughter if she sat down with him and told him she had premarital sex. His exact words were “I sure would like to kill her if that happened.” I responded that no sane parent in this day and time would kill their child, and in fact, no one in the room would do it. A parent may be upset, angry, frustrated, or feel any number of emotions, but they would not kill their own just because of a supposed biblical fatwa in the Old Testament. Furthermore, how is it just that the man only gets a fine and a beating if he is wrong, but the woman gets stoned? Should we adopt the ancient Near Eastern practice of viewing women as property?
Needless to say, my comments didn’t go over well with the teacher. He informed me that human logic doesn’t apply, and God said it, he believes it, and that settles it. This is really the church’s way of saying “You called me out, I have no answer, and therefore, I conclude that you are a douchebag.” This is just a sample of what I argue against on a weekly basis.
Is it ethical for me to continue to attend this church and publicly disagree with the leaders on these sorts of issues? Should I just come out and walk away, or should I continue to try and inject some critical thinking into the indoctrination/teaching process? I guess what I’m really asking is whether or not it is appropriate to take the fight against religious fundamentalism into the sacred sepulcher and challenge cherished beliefs in the pews instead of the public sphere. I imagine that you’re very busy, and I appreciate the time and thought you put into responding to emails like this. Thanks for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Bill
Dear Bill,
This would be a simpler problem if your wife was not involved. Without her on the scene, the only ethical problem would arise when someone in the church asked you point blank if you believe in God. Then you’d have to weigh the ethics of honesty vs. your desire to make things better.
Aside from the honesty issue, absent your wife, the rest would be a matter of weighing cost versus benefit. In other words, will you really be able to change others’ beliefs or social attitudes from the inside as a church member, and what will it cost you?
The teacher was courteous enough to tell you what you’re up against. He said “that human logic doesn’t apply, and God said it, he believes it, and that settles it.” Will your rational arguments, enhanced by your passionate outrage be enough to break through pious mulishness like that? Will your logic at least plant seeds that might sprout in a few of the more fertile minds, or will it bounce off like a BB off a battleship? I don’t know. Maybe you’re really good at it.
Remember what it is like inside the fortified mind-set from which you freed yourself. Faith, often a euphemism for unquestioning credence, is taught to be a moral virtue. Doubt and skepticism are taught to be moral vices. Merely questioning the Bible is seen as rude at best, and heresy at worst. Education is looked upon with suspicion. Science is often called the work of the devil. Here, ignorance is not merely the passive lack of knowledge. Here, it is active, robust, aggressively self-defending and self-replicating. Here, ignorance is alive.
Also remember that you’re up against men who make money by convincing people to abdicate their ability to think for themselves. Your church isn’t just a social and book discussion club. It’s a business that sells dogged intellectual conformity. Threaten the leaders’ livelihood, and it won’t be long before you’re told to quite literally get the hell out.
Because they are founded on absolute claims lacking evidence, most churches tend to be very intolerant of dissent, disagreement and dispute. They’re brittle. Dissenters don’t usually get to stay inside and work to change things for very long. More often they’re pushed out and they start their own church with their own angle on things, trying to take some of the like-minded congregation with them. This is why there are thousands of sub-sects. They multiply by dividing, like amoebas.
Bill, if it were just you alone, I’d say hey, if you like fighting single-handedly against a gang of armor-plated automatons, then go for it! I admire your valor and your pluck. Sometimes David vs. Goliath stories turn out well. Maybe you’ll turn the whole thing around, or maybe you’ll at least get them to soften their stances on certain social issues. I’d also suggest that you wear a helmet in church, and don’t walk down any dark streets.
But you’re not alone.
I cannot be sure from your letter whether or not your wife knows of your loss of faith, and what that would mean between the two of you. That is a first priority issue that would affect your other decisions.
Your wife is still a devoted believer and member of the church and a sincere believer. You said that you continue to attend out of respect for her devotion. So her feelings are important to you. It might be that nothing unpleasant will happen, but churches have well-earned reputations for penalizing people for their association with others who are seen as troublemakers, especially family members. Your actions could seriously affect her relationships with others in the congregation, and your actions could seriously affect her relationship with you.
This is your primary ethical dilemma: You must weigh your desire to do battle against what you see as a harmful influence in your community, versus the risk of collateral damage that may be suffered by your loved one. Whatever hits you take as a result of your struggle are part your choice, but someone else taking hits from that is another matter entirely.
I suggest that you talk this over thoroughly with your wife. You should at least hear what her concerns would be. To deliberate this carefully you need more information, and since you clearly think that women should be treated as persons instead of property, then she should have some input into your decision.
I see three different questions that you should consider:
- If you stay in the church, will you be able to make any change from the inside to their beliefs or social attitudes, and what will be the effect on your wife?
- If you leave the church with a public declaration of your atheism, will you be able to make any change from the outside to their beliefs or social attitudes, and what will be the effect on your wife?
- If you leave the church quietly, just stop coming, will you be able to make any change from the outside to their beliefs or social attitudes, and what will be the effect on your wife?
I don’t have the answers to these questions. I can only urge you to be very judicious in your decision. The consequences could range from good, to unremarkable, to very painful.
Richard
You may send your questions for Richard to . All questions will eventually be answered, but not all can be published. There is a large number of requests; please be patient.
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10.29.09
Posted in Coming Out, General at 1:00 pm by Hemant Mehta
True story: Last weekend, I was showing my dad a couple of the articles about the ChicagoCor Atheist Billboard.
His reaction was, “Do you realize your name is now associated with atheism?!”
Umm…
My family knows about this website and my activism, but they don’t read it and we rarely talk about it.
I can’t imagine trying to keep everything I do a secret from them, though, because it takes up so much of my life outside of work.
…
Jeremy runs a blog called Le Café Witteveen and has kept his atheism relatively under wraps from his family. Some of them know about his lack of religious beliefs, but they certainly don’t talk about it.
But that’s probably going to change. Jeremy just found out that family members have been lurking on his site for months now, reading it without his knowledge, aware of his beliefs without him ever having come out to them.
But maybe that’s a good thing. He’s out now. He can be completely open and honest when talking about faith without needing to hide it from anyone:
… So the conundrum is how to keep this a place of expressing, without self editing, how I view the world and keep the idea in tact that I “love the sinner and hate the sin” per se.
I loathe “hate sin love sinner” It’s a ruthless lie in church vernacular. The main sins this statement addresses are sexual sins, namely homosexuality. You never hear someone say, “Hate the lies love the liar” or “hate the work done on sabbath but love the worker”. It’s hands-down the most insincere level of dishonest judgement that a person of any background can make.
How do I make this statement pertain to me. Do I say, “I love the religious person but hate the religion they follow”? Because that’s intolerant and haughty (but it’s a certainly true feeling, eek).
Is there really no way to pursue the topics I might like to pursue without making people feel ehrm … poopy?
I’m sure he’ll find a way to do it respectfully. You can criticize their beliefs even without directly criticizing them.
And maybe reading about his experience will encourage other hidden or anonymous bloggers to come out to their loved ones.
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10.27.09
Posted in Advice, Atheist Parenting, Coming Out, General, Richard Wade at 12:00 pm by Richard Wade
Hello and thank you for your time.
I grew up a christian and was raised in a baptist home (yikes). I am divorced and I have two children ages 11 and 7. I have only been an atheist for 3 years. My children were exposed to christianity from birth and still attend church with their mother, which scares the proverbial Hell out of me. They do not know of my change in ideology.
My question is, when do I talk to them about it? Even though I am an atheist, I still pray with them every night that they are with me. Now I realize this seems odd but, I believe it brings them comfort… the kind of comfort that is no different than my daughter’s stuffed alligator that she sleeps with every night… and talks to. I do not believe the alligator can hear her anymore than god would in our prayers. Am I misleading my children? or it is ok, to a point in their age, to make sure they feel comforted.
Dad of Two
Dear Dad,
This is very complicated, very delicate and there are many “ifs,” so based only on your letter, I cannot give you many definitive suggestions. I can only generally lay out for you issues of which you should be aware and pitfalls to avoid. Some possibilities I describe may sound worrisome, but it may turn out that this is resolved more easily. If I discuss something that is obvious to you, or if I warn you against something that you’d never even consider, please forgive me.
Children in divorced families are caught between conflicting loyalties. They are naturally loyal to both their parents. When their parents disagree on something important, the kids can feel uncomfortable taking one side over the other. When the parents don’t get along and even dislike each other, the kids end up having varying levels of guilt mixed into their love for each parent. They think in either/or, black-and-white terms. Understanding things like gray areas, ambiguity, nuance and compromise are for much more mature people. Even many adults never master these. So in the kids’ minds, when they are loving one parent, to some extent they may think they are being disloyal to the other.
The severity of that inner conflict and the pain involved is determined mainly by how conscientiously the divorced parents cooperate to mitigate it for the kids. In the best of cases, the parents communicate openly, and agree to make it clear to the kids that loving them both is okay, and that they don’t have to choose one parent over the other. Then the kids’ discomfort can be greatly reduced. It is also important for such conscientious parents to make it clear that it is not the kids’ fault that their parents don’t get along. Internalizing that undeserved guilt is a sadly common consequence when their feelings are not openly and frequently discussed.
In the worst of cases, the parents, focused on their own resentment for each other, use their kids as weapons against each other. They will denigrate their ex spouse in front of the kids, and even tell them to spy on the other. Meanwhile, the other parent may be doing something similar, so the children become ropes in a tug-of-war, or stones to be thrown back and forth, or very conflicted double agents. Many other metaphors would express the situation where more damage is done to the innocents in the middle than is done to the two enemies who are in conflict.
Your two kids, going back and forth between you and their mom are already caught in at least a little of this. That is inevitable, even in the best of cases. What you must do for them is to at least not make it worse. You may be able to make it better with patience, humility and selflessness.
Below are some of the “iffy” issues that are not clear here, and would affect your best course of action:
- Are you able to cooperate with your ex-wife to promote the best interest of the children?
In the best scenario, you would first tell your ex-wife about your atheism, and alleviate whatever fears and misconceptions she might have from that revelation. Then the two of you would work out a detailed agreement about the children’s religious upbringing, about how things like prayer would be handled, and how you will tell the kids about your views.
I realize that best scenarios are rare, but if there is any room there, work with it. If she is not as willing to cooperate with you as you are with her, it may take some time to negotiate with her and to coax her to focus on realistic solutions that benefit the children, but also respect both of your needs.
- Is atheism vs. religion going to be a very severe a conflict between you and your ex-wife?
If it is so contentious that it will cause the “weaponizing” of the kids, or make them the prize in a contest of who will “win them over,” then it may be preferable to not reveal your non-belief to your ex-wife at all. If you choose to not tell her about your atheism, DO NOT tell your kids about it with the requirement that “This will be a secret between us, don’t tell Mommy.” That would severely increase their inner conflict of loyalties, and it would most likely leak out anyway. A tangled mess of tension, guilt, confusion, anger and hurt would come from that. Avoid, if you can, teaching them to lie to someone they love.
- Do you want to get the kids to see things the way you do?
As a parent, it’s natural that you would want that. But the question really is, how badly do you want that, and to what amount of conflict are you willing to subject the kids? Thinking that you will be “saving” them from the evils of religion would be just as regrettable as your ex-wife possibly thinking that she’s “saving” them from the evils of atheism. Both of these mentalities are based on a vision of a future outcome that is probably colored more by emotion than reason. They both tend to increasingly focus the parents on wanting to be right and wanting to have their own way. The wellbeing of the children in the here-and-now begins to recede into the background.
You have the right to try to influence your children, and so does your ex-wife. Short of illegal abuse, neither of you have the right to completely prohibit the influence of the other. If cooperation with your ex is not an option and competition is too destructive, then your course will have to be to influence them quietly by your example. They will benefit from watching you be a man who is true to his convictions by the way he lives rather than the things he says.
Regardless of the course you take according to the considerations above, you can begin being more true to your own views by not participating actively in their prayers. When they say, “Are we gonna say our bedtime prayers, now?” you can smile and say, “Sure, you can if you want.” That subtly gives the choice to them. If they say, “Aren’t you gonna pray with us?” you might smile and say, “That’s for you kids, Sweetheart. I’m going to sit here and think about how much I love you.” That is after all, what you’re actually doing.
You compared their prayers to a stuffed toy they use for comfort. They know that you and other adults no longer use stuffed toys, and they see no problem with that. Your subtle message is that this is a thing that people grow out of.
Over the next several years, you will have thousands of interactions with them where your example will be more a powerful teaching tool than a specific tutorial. They will watch how you think things through, how you hold back coming to a conclusion while you look for evidence, and how you make it okay for anyone to question anything. When you help them with their homework, you will be frequently asking things like, “Hmm. How do we know this?” or “Okay, what evidence is there for your idea?” You will be planting the seeds of skepticism and critical thinking.
Perhaps soon, perhaps not soon, the right time will come for you to speak to them frankly and openly about your unbelief. There are so many unknown conditions in your situation that it is not possible to recommend a specific time or age that is best. At ages 11 and 7 they are probably beginning to be able to understand the basics of what you want to tell them, but there is so much variation in children’s cognitive and emotional development, and so many variables in your relationship with their mother. I’m sorry that I have to say it depends, it depends, it depends.
When the time comes, tell your kids the truth about yourself. Don’t talk about God, talk about your lack of belief, and what you need in order to believe something. Make it clear to them that it is up to them to decide for themselves what they will believe as they grow up. Make it clear that it is okay for them to change their minds as time goes by. Make it clear that you will love them if they choose to disagree with you. That must be completely true for you or it will soon be shown to be false, and it will only make things worse. Be in every breath the man who speaks the truth he lives.
Dad, your focus on wanting your kids to be comforted at this age shows that as a parent you have your priorities in the right order. It means that their wellbeing is at the top, and your personal needs taper down from that. As they grow, you will be more able to accommodate your needs with theirs so that you are not constantly sacrificing being true to yourself in order to be kind to them. It will probably be a gradual shift until they are able to be their own persons standing alongside you, having learned by your example as you adjusted to their increasing maturity.
Your kids have an excellent father.
Richard
You may send your questions for Richard to . All questions will eventually be answered, but not all can be published. There is a large number of requests; please be patient.
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10.20.09
Posted in Advice, Atheist Parenting, Coming Out, General, Richard Wade at 9:00 am by Richard Wade
I received two letters from non-believers considering baptizing their kids. Both are wondering about the ethics of the issue but they are brought to the question by different motives.
Dear Richard,
I was raised Catholic, but have not been religious for most of my life. I was fortunate to have very good parents who were happy to step back and let us grow up the way we chose. I chose to be good without God or Religion. My wife is Agnostic — also raised Catholic, but like me, disagrees with many of the teachings and representation of the Catholic church. We’re planning to start a family, and the subject of Baptism has come up. We’ve had very civil discussions about the choice to baptize or not baptize our kids, and she has slowly come around to the idea that it would be ok not to.
However, while researching schools here in Australia, we are struck with a harsh reality: in general, the private, Catholic schools are better institutions, offering better facilities, better standards, teachers, etc, than the state-run public schools. Research to date suggests that our kids will have to be baptized into the Catholic church in order to be considered for enrollment.
Now, the Catholic schools we both went to were fairly light on the religion (we don’t really have the same religious zeal here as you would find there in the US) despite the religiosity they express on many of their websites.
My concern is: we have the option to baptize our kids if we wish to have the opportunity to send them to a better school. Is it right to go through this sacrament with our mental fingers crossed behind our backs for the sake of the kid’s future?
Cheers,
Paul
Dear Paul,
By asking “is it right” I take it you are asking if is it ethical for you and your wife to keep your lack of belief to yourselves while having your kids baptized, so that the clergy and the school administrators do not know that you don’t believe in their god or their sacrament.
Short answer: No, it is not ethical because it involves deceiving the clergy and the school administrators.
Beginning of the long answer: Probably easy to fix. If deceiving them bothers you, just tell them.
I think that the clergy and the school administrators believe that the baptism will have its desired effect on your kids’ souls regardless of what their parents believe. It’s the initiation ceremony into their religion, and that is what they require to attend their school. You won’t be going to the school, your kids will. The Church will get to claim that they have more adherents, and the school will get your tuition money. The fact that you and your wife are a couple of disbelieving sinners shouldn’t be a problem. They’re used to disbelieving sinners.
It’s certainly not going to be the first time they have encountered lapsed Catholics. You and your wife were baptized into the Church and they consider you to be Catholics for life, despite your loss of interest in their theology.
If the two of you don’t believe that the baptism has any intrinsic power or significance, then to you it’s just a game that the priest and the school want to play. Let them have their fun. Scout troops, fraternities and clubs of all kinds have their rituals. If, for ethical reasons, you want to be straight forward and honest with them about the way you see things, good for you. Be tactful, brief and honest. I’d be very surprised if that would be an obstacle stopping your kids from getting into the school. The school Principal will nod his head sympathetically and encourage you to become more involved in the Church again, even as he puts your big fat check into the school cash box.
I’m also sure that there are many other parents who have similar feelings about religion and the Church, and they are also only sending their kids to the Catholic schools for the educational quality, and the schools know it, and they don’t care.
To keep it all ethically up and up with your kids, I suggest that as they grow into successive stages of understanding, you explain to them your views on religion and the real reasons why you enrolled them into that school, and how you were honest and forthright with the administrators right from the beginning. By doing that, you’ll be modeling honesty and openness for them while also giving them both the liberty and the responsibility to think for themselves.
Dear Richard,
I am a fairly new-to-the-cause atheist, though in my heart I was born one. My full acceptance of my atheism came about 5 years after I got married and my husband is completely supportive.
We have two sons, Ben, aged 4, and Eli, aged 1. My in-laws are very close to us and they adore their grandchildren. My in-laws are of two faiths, my MIL is Catholic and my FIL is a Congregationalist who converted from Catholicism. Soon, very soon, after my older son was born my FIL started asking when we were going to baptize him. Not being religious at the time but neither being aware I was an atheist, we baptized my son at the Congregationalist church. In this church, in the meetings we had before the baptism we were told that a baptism is the first step in a life of religious education, that we were in essence promising to become part of their church community and teach our son Christianity and acceptance of God and Jesus. My husband would be a Congregationalist if he ever actually went to church (never does) so he thought this was a good idea. I however was totally, knowingly lying when I made these promises. I was more interested in honoring my SIL and her husband as godparents and then having a family picnic cause I love family parties.
My FIL however, despite his conversion, feels that baptism is necessary for my child to get into Heaven should my child die. Now I know this is no longer the doctrine of any semi-sensible church, even the Catholic Church, but my FIL doesn’t agree. He honestly believes that baptizing our second son is a safety measure to count in his favor.
Should I go through the whole rigmarole to get my second son baptized when I have no intention of honoring these promises, knowing that my husband is not getting up at 8 am on Sunday to take the boys to church and that the purpose of said baptism is to appease a silly superstition that no one but my FIL believes in? (Though my grandmother would probably love it too).
I don’t see that baptizing my son will harm him or myself. I would not lie to a church this time, I would recuse myself as an atheist and make my husband take full responsibility. My husband doesn’t care about a formal baptism at all, to him religion is totally personal and internal, he just doesn’t want to deal with me getting upset! So the good to my father in law is high, the negatives to me is in principle alone, but I think the whole idea is just plain silly and superstitious. My husband has even said “Heck, I could baptize him right now if you want” but my FIL really wants the ceremony and the paper. Should I acquiesce?
Any advice is appreciated!,
Best,
Meg
Dear Meg,
In your case, your motives for doing this are to be kind to the feelings of your father-in-law and to keep peace in the family. Those are harder reasons to dismiss, and so simply being straight forward as I suggested to Paul may not be the best option. You seem to have found a way around the ethical dilemma by simply having your husband take care of it all. If it bothers you to have to repeat the lies that you told with the baptism of your older son, then let Dad do it. As casual as he is about religion, he won’t mind going through the charade, and Grandpa will be happy.
If your husband’s making or implying those promises that neither of you intend to fulfill still troubles you, then you might try to find a different way to give the kid his bath. Perhaps you could have him baptized by a church that doesn’t demand all these pointed assurances of continuing involvement with them, as long as your father-in-law is satisfied that the ritual was properly done. There seems to be a wide variety of such policies and expectations in different churches.
Promises are important to keep, and at the same time promises are made in a context. Atheists are a minority operating in very hostile territory. They are often very ethically conscious people, but they frequently pay a dear price for following the ethical principle of honesty. Promises they make for fealty to their family’s religion are usually made under duress. A set of heavy consequences can hang over them. The strong temptation to pretend agreement in order to protect themselves and others from punishment is very understandable, and in many cases, very pardonable. Agreements made in such intimidating circumstances are not freely made, and how ethically binding they are is highly questionable.
As free thinkers, we have to make our choices in ethical dilemmas using our judgment rather than following rigid rules like automatons. We want to follow a principle of honesty, but we also have a principle of kindness to others as well the right and duty to protect ourselves and others from unwarranted hurt. If we are approached by a man with a murderous look asking us where our friend went, we will lie saying that she went the other way. In this case, the principle of honesty is trumped by the principle of consideration for the friend’s safety.
Some ethical dilemmas like that one are obvious, but many involve tougher choices. Usually there is no perfect solution, only the best one we can come up with at the time, and we must take the responsibility for the consequences of our choice.
Lastly, there is a pragmatic matter. Ethics aside, each time you acquiesce to family pressure to do some religious thing, you may be buying the next demand down the road. The old saying “give them an inch and they’ll take a mile” can apply here, although they usually take that mile one inch at a time. After your father-in-law’s feelings are taken care of, who will be next in line? Only you know the complex landscape of your family’s attitudes and expectations, so you are the one who knows best if such pressures will increase or remain at an innocuous level. Just keep it in mind. There are no universal solutions to these puzzles. You have to take a guess at what will work and learn from each attempt.
Paul, your yet-to-be kids, and Meg, your two boys I think are very lucky, because their parents are thoughtful, are concerned about ethics, and are willing to find their ways through tougher choices for their benefit, rather than just blithely going the easy route without even thinking about such things. I wish all your loved ones good lives, and with you there, I think that is likely.
Richard
You may send your questions for Richard to . All questions will eventually be answered, but not all can be published. There is a large number of requests; please be patient.
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10.10.09
Posted in Coming Out, General, Politics at 8:00 am by Hemant Mehta
Today is the day that hundreds of atheists in Poland are staging a coming out march:
What is the significance of this march?
“We want to show that there are non-believers living in Poland,” Ewelina Podsiad, the chief organiser of the march, told the Krakow Post. According to the MAiA website, the non-theist minority needs to be recognised because “in a situation when a minority is not visible, it is easy to discriminate against it, to exclude its interests and rights, especially in the crucial area of legislation”.
…
The march’s organisers want to show Polish society that there are non-believers amongst them, and argue that the country’s legislation should reflect this. Ms. Podsiad also explained that it’s important for non-believers to realise that they are not alone. Around 300 participants are expected at the march tomorrow afternoon. While Ms. Podsiad does not expect trouble from religious or extremist groups, MAiA has nonetheless applied for police protection to ensure the safety of the marchers.
This is a big deal in one of the most Pope-friendly cities in the world. I wish them well and look forward to positive reports from the march.
(Thanks to Anna for the link!)
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10.06.09
Posted in Advice, College Atheists, Coming Out, General, Richard Wade at 10:00 am by Richard Wade
Dear Richard,
I am a senior in high school and I am preparing to start the college admissions process. A few of the colleges that I am planning on applying to use the Common Application. The essay for the Common App is open-ended and can be written on any topic of choice.
I am contemplating writing about my experiences as a teenage atheist for the subject of this essay. I am not planning on explaining the reasons why I’m an atheist or even talk about atheism itself. I simply want to share how being a minority has affected my life by sharing my experiences. I think that it would be a very personal and sincere essay and it would allow the schools to see who I really am.
At the same time, however, I am worried about the potential for discrimination. I feel that it is risky to even mention the fact that I don’t believe in God to the people who are paid to judge my character and who also have influence over my future. Surely they have received plenty of similar essays from racial minorities sharing their experiences, but I’m not sure how they would react to an atheist doing the same.
Coincidentally, the Common App colleges that I am applying to are also my “reach” schools, so I am willing to take more of a risk with their essays. I have also done some research, and each one of these schools has a student group that is affiliated the Secular Student Alliance. Still, I am hesitant about risking my chances for admission due to my essay topic selection.
So far, I have only found very limited advice on the internet and most of it recommends avoiding the subject of religion, especially atheism. Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
College-Bound Student
Dear College-Bound,
Ah, the eternal struggle between principles and pragmatism, what ought to be vs. what works. In principle, you should be able to write about “any topic of choice,” just as it says on the application. But pragmatically, with that particular topic, you’re taking a chance that you’ll be denied an acceptance regardless of how well it is written.
In principle, with an open-ended topic the admissions staff reviewer should be evaluating mainly for your ability to express yourself clearly and skillfully, with a style that shows promise that you will be able to write appropriately for academic works.
In reality, the admissions reviewer is a human being, subject to emotions, biases and even prejudice. The loathsome intolerance against atheists and atheism is very widespread and very strong. At this point in time, discrimination against racial minorities and religious minorities such as Jews is socially taboo enough to get people who discriminate fired, as it should. Discrimination against gays and lesbians is steadily becoming more taboo, but is still accepted by a large portion of the population. However, discrimination against atheists seems to be almost universally accepted, rarely resulting in social embarrassment or penalty at all. We have a long way to go.
When broaching subjects that society is still learning to accept, timing is important. Today, someone writing an application essay about socialism would probably risk little if any negative reaction to the topic, but in the 1950’s they could kiss their chances goodbye, and perhaps even be blacklisted at colleges across the nation. Timing makes a huge difference.
Colleges seem to vary widely in their admissions policies. Is it a picky college looking to exclude applicants for any hint of controversy, or is it more open and only looking at essays to screen out people who can’t write coherent sentences? Is there a clear and practiced criteria for judging an essay, or is it subjective to the sensibilities of whoever happens to read it? You probably have no way of finding out ahead of time.
The admissions staff may have no problem with you being an atheist, or they may disapprove but try to disregard it, or they may be negatively influenced subconsciously, or they may even see themselves as protecting the college from influences that they think are objectionable and they will reject you any way they can. Their set of “principles” may not include giving an atheist a fair chance.
Your “reach” schools may have SSA affiliates on campus, but that does not necessarily indicate an atmosphere of acceptance that permeates all the way into the Admissions department.
I found an interesting website called Education Planner that seems to have some good advice on several aspects of successful college admission, including this statement about essays:
Remember, a great essay can really make an admission official sit up and take notice. However, subjectivity prevails here. Some readers are biased toward content; some toward writing style and mechanics. One applicant submitted an ambitious essay that compared the works of three Eastern European writers. Two of her evaluators were impressed by her literary sophistication and the insight of her analysis; a third couldn’t get beyond the errors in spelling and sentence structure.
College-Bound, whether or not this topic for your essay is a good idea depends on many factors that are not within your control. You have control over some of the materials you send to them, and other materials, such as your transcripts, you do not. By sending them your proposed essay, you will be relinquishing even more control to them, and to the perhaps slim odds that they will follow principles that you hope they share with you.
The problem is that in this horse race, the odds don’t pay any better if you bet on the long shot instead of on the favorite. You are accepted or rejected. That’s all you get. For taking a greater risk, you do not get a greater return.
I want to make it very clear that by starting out my response by contrasting principles vs. pragmatics, I was not implying that you would be compromising your personal principles by choosing a less risky topic. That would be a false dichotomy that does not apply at all. You have made no promises regarding your choice of topic; you owe no one anything about it. This is your bid to get into one of the colleges of your choice. You’re free to write about whatever you want.
Many atheists stress the importance of “coming out” publicly because it helps to dispel the myths and negative stereotypes and to normalize our image as legitimate members of society. In general, I agree with this, but it has to be each person’s decision, made with their own interest in mind, carefully considering the pros and cons of taking that step at any particular point in time.
You said,
I think that it would be a very personal and sincere essay and it would allow the schools to see who I really am.
Yes, I’m sure that it would be sincere and candid. I just wonder if your sincerity and candor will be honored by the people who have the choice to give you or deny you what you want. Whatever you write about, have it be something that you can express clearly, with a balance of both passion and intelligence. That could probably be several subjects. Your atheism is only one aspect of you. In your writing, demonstrate the traits that have led to your atheism: your ability to think freely, to go beyond the popular assumptions, to question, investigate and reason. Those traits apply to many more things in your life than just a question about the existence of gods.
Right now, as a beginning student you have very little power, clout or authority. If I were in your position, I’d wait until my completed education had given me enough power, clout and authority to defend myself against the inevitable backlash before declaring my atheism in an essay.
However, if I were in your position I’d be 40 years younger, and back then “the principle of the thing,” the idea that I ought to be able to write about whatever I damn well please would have been more important to me. Over the decades, I’ve become more pragmatic. I’ve charged up several hills with my comrades only to find myself at the top facing the enemy alone, so I’ve learned to pick my battles and most importantly to pick the right time.
You should eventually write this essay, and I hope that many people read your story. I just would hate to see one more paragraph in it relating how your education was hampered because of another incidence of the bigotry that so many of us have experienced, simply because you made your move too soon.
I wish you the very best of experiences in your education and career. This is the beginning of a wonderful and challenging time in your life.
Richard
You may send your questions for Richard to 
. All questions will eventually be answered, but not all can be published. There is a large number of requests; please be patient.
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09.27.09
Posted in Art, Coming Out, General, Pop Culture at 2:00 pm by Hemant Mehta
Ben Allison is a jazz bassist whose ninth album, Think Free, will be released in a couple weeks.
What’s the deal with the album’s name? Allison explains:
This is my “coming out” album. I’ve been living with a secret for quite a while. It’s something that most of my friends know about me but I’ve never divulged it in public. Although at least 10 percent of the U.S. population openly admits to being part of this group, there is tremendous pressure not to be vocal about it. And it’s a political third rail. You will almost never hear a politician admit to being one. But I’m tired of dodging the issue and feel I do a disservice to all of those who are not afraid to be outspoken about who they are. It’s time to stand and be counted. The truth is that I’m an … atheist. There, I said it. I guess I’ve known that I was one since I was a little kid. I experimented with theism in high school. Who didn’t? But I’d have to get drunk and kind of force myself. And I’d always feel “wrong” afterwards. And then I’d feel guilty for feeling “wrong.” It was a dysfunctional way to live. Then I moved to Greenwich Village. And all around me were these other atheists. Just doing their thing. It all felt very natural. And I’ve never looked back. Wait, what was the question again?
It’s always nice to hear someone — anyone — come out publicly as an atheist. It makes it all the more acceptable for the next person to do it, too, as Allison himself experienced in Greenwich Village.
Congratulations to him for doing it in such a public way.
(Thanks to Ben for the link!)
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