Posted by Hemant Mehta in Forsyth County in North Carolina could owe about $100,000 in legal fees if a federal judge finds them liable for promoting Christianity at their regular meetings. All of this could’ve been avoided if they simply used their common sense and kept religion out of the government.
A federal magistrate has recommended that prayers referencing Jesus and other sectarian deities made before meetings of the Forsyth County Commissioners are unconstitutional.
The decision, by Magistrate Judge P. Trevor Sharp, was in favor of the American Civil Liberties Union, which filed the lawsuit against Forsyth County on behalf of Janet Joyner and Constance Blackmon, residents of Forsyth County who have attended commissioners’ meetings.
“The defendant’s prayer alienates those whose beliefs differ from Christian beliefs and divides citizens along religious lines,” said Katy Parker, one of the attorneys with the ACLU.
“The government has to remain neutral on matters of religion, and that’s what the Establishment Clause is all about — that the government can’t pick sides,” she said.
Other cities are sometimes allowed to get away with this because they invite people from several religious faiths and no faith at all — and all of them may only give a non-sectarian prayer, that is, no mention of one particular deity or another.
That wasn’t the case here, though. The magistrate’s decision is precise and blunt (PDF) in explaining how Jesus-centric Forsyth County prayers were:
The undisputed record shows that the prayers delivered at the outset of Board meetings from May 29, 2007 through December 15, 2008 referred to Jesus, Jesus Christ, Christ, or Savior with overwhelming frequency… No non- Christian deities are invoked… These prayers as a whole cannot be considered non- sectarian or civil prayer. They display a preference for Christianity over other religions by the government.
“Overwhelming frequency” means 26 out of 33 invocations contained a reference to Jesus or the like.
Again, this is an easy problem to fix.
Remove prayers before meetings.
You want to pray? Do it on your own time. You don’t need to force the rest of the city (or at least those who attend meetings) to do it with you. Why is that so damn difficult to comprehend?
But apparently, the requirement that religion be kept private is too much for these Christians to deal with. The Alliance Defense Fund (defending the county) has not yet released a statement on the matter as far as I can tell…
(Thanks to Michael for the link)
Maybe they ought to quit their jobs and work as bus drivers in Atlanta…it would cost the county less in the long run with the added potential benefit of someone smacking them silly one day.
Ahhh, I dream,,,,I dream.
JESUS DEMANDS AN EXPLANATION FOR NORTH CAROLINA’S BULLSHIT
I work in an office. We have multiple meetings a week. I’ve been a part of the working world for 20 years now.
Never. In my life. Has a meeting begun with a prayer.
What’s so hard about that?
I hope this is the precedent for all the court cases to come, like the upcoming ones in super awesome Nor-Cal (ya I said super awesome). “H” were you a reporter in a (nonexistent) past life, great job once again.
Kriss
Right on. But when most people realize that they can do what they want at the start of the meeting (or pre-meeting) without forcing everyone else to do so too, they’ll realize that the rest of the meeting isn’t necessary either. Name one thing that gets said or done at a city council meeting that doesn’t fall into the category of “forcing the rest of the city to do it with you.”
Punch and pie?
Holy crap, that’s the county next-door to me, and I hadn’t even heard of this!! Know any way we can get in contact with the Plaintiffs? I’d like to offer my support.
What is wrong with these people?
Even assuming they actually believe their prayers are important, they MUST know how rude, divisive and blatantly disrespectful they are being.
Never mind illegal.
Or were they all raised by families who didn’t know basic manners? Oh, right, like by christian families?
Lagunatic wrote:
Yeah, but then they’d get buses with atheist ads, and they’d refuse to drive the bus, and there would be more trouble.
Nah…traffic already sucks in ATL – no one would even notice.
What upcoming ones in super awesome Nor-Cal? Wasn’t this settled in in super bitchin’ So-Cal for all of Republic of Cal Uber Alles in Rubin vs. City of Burbank? i.e. no prayer to any specific gods no heavenly fathers or in the name of Jesus’ or in your names, stuff like that, I thought Cali was done with that. Case closed no deities need apply, Did something change this?
From the comments:
*sigh*. Unfortunately, I live just a few counties away.
Holy crap, have you read the comments on that article? I’m ashamed to live in the Triad.
Yeah, I read them, and I’d bet money that ALL the comments supporting the Separation of Church and State found the comment section through the Friendly Atheist, lol.
I was surprised to hear about this on the news the other day. I work in Eastern NC and work for two towns of which I attend all of the board of commissioner meetings both of which are opened with prayers to Jesus, god, lord, savior, etc. etc. etc. I think opening meetings with christian prayer is pretty common for local gov’t. And yes, I do find it rather bothersome.
JohnFrost: Your best bet is to contact the ACLU of NC and offer your support. Visit them at http://www.acluofnorthcarolina.org.
What’s interesting is that the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF), counsel for Forsyth County, is advising the county to appeal the decision, but the county may not want to do so because they may be liable for attorney’s fees of well over $100,000 (what it’s at now) if they lose.
Full disclosure: I am a former intern for and a member of the ACLU of NC.
I attended the oral arguments for this case about three weeks ago in Greensboro and have been following this case since its beginning in 2007.
This is what’s bound to happen when prayers are allowed at all — take over by the majority religion.
I really don’t see how even nondenominational prayer can be allowed. It’s still excluding those of us who don’t believe in any of the nonsense or deities of any sort.