As I progressed in my journey to full-fledged atheism, she remained in her faith — though hardly a “practicing” member of her church. Looking back I see that our discussions of religion/god diminished as I became more sure of my position that it was all nonsense. I think that was partly because she may have found my position insulting to her — in effect, I was saying that she believed in nonsense. I was not pushy regarding atheism but I often found it difficult to hold my tongue when religious issues came up.

During the final days of her life (she died as a result of lung cancer — ironically, though she smoked 3 packs a day for 30-odd years, it was the only type of lung cancer NOT associated with smoking,) she became more religious, as may be expected. I attended one “healing” mass with her but she knew my heart wasn’t in it. I confess that one of my regrets is that I didn’t, or couldn’t, play along — if for no other reason than to give her comfort. I loved her very much and I often castigate myself for allowing my philosophy to interfere with helping to ease her mind about her imminent death.

It is very easy to take offense in the area of religion/god. We, as atheists, are essentially calling theists “idiots” or “fools.” So if you want a relationship with a theist — however tenuous their belief — you must tread lightly. There is a little tit-for-tat, however, as the Bible clearly states that one that denies god is a fool. Turnabout seems like fair play — but it doesn’t do much to nurture a relationship.

As an example, enlisted military personnel can trash talk the armed forces to each other but if a non-military person criticizes the armed forces, then the military person will often get very defensive. Only those that “did the time” have the right to criticize.

PS, this is so true! I’m in the military and I bitch about it all the time, but I’d be sooo pissed if someone else did it…puts a little perspective in there!

N.

It’s a bit like a brother-in-law. – your wife may not think much of her own brother but if you slag him off she feels hurt!

I doubt her boyfriend would be as defensive if she were quoting religious scholars on theology. And indeed, she being more intimately involved in his life, a counter-argument to his faith may come as an attack, whereas it wouldn’t have from a stranger. Something along the lines of, “You know I believe this way, why are you engaging me in debate?”

Point: I don’t think it’s unnatural to be defensive when someone is posing an argument counter to your beliefs, any more than an atheist is being overly defensive when someone suggests they should “get religion.”

Based on the information provided by Nora, it sounds as though her boyfriend is not all that knowledgeable in his own religion. He seems to be a passive “just-in-case” ticket holder, as countless Christians are.

A subject that one knows little about is usually not the subject that he/she wants to discuss. It is natural for them to get defensive when their knowledge (or lack thereof) is challenged, especially when the challenger appears to be more confident about their perspective on the issue.

It will be hard for him to abandon the religion unless he’s willing to delve into it, understand what it’s all about, and then challenge the illogic himself. Pressuring him to discuss it will only make him more defensive.

Just love him and accept him wherever he is in the process. It sounds like his religious faith is not an issue in the relationship, so why make it so?

And if he hangs onto his ticket, perhaps you can go as his date to the judgment ball! Just kidding!

~David D.G.

If your significant other is a Baptist, try the reverse. Talk about Catholics.

Tribalism is a very powerful human motivator.

As an example, enlisted military personnel can trash talk the armed forces to each other but if a non-military person criticizes the armed forces, then the military person will often get very defensive. Only those that “did the time” have the right to criticize.

I wonder also if the boyfriend might feel pressure that he has to represent all Catholics in these discussions? He knows there are historical, biblical, or traditional explanations for Catholic views but as a lapsed Catholic, he might not remember them or perhaps never cared enough to find out before now. Add to all that to the possibility that he might not totally agree with the stance that he’s being asked to explain, and it’s a recipe for irritability.

Perhaps Nora could look up the Catholic Encyclopedia online or some Catholic Apologist blogs for background info before starting a religious discussion with her boyfriend? If she starts with that, the boyfriend might relax a bit and believe her when she says she’s interested in his own views, how he, personally, finds modern relevance in old traditions.

But there’s also an element of #2. Even among inactive or lapsed Catholics, you’d be surprised how important the Catholic identity can be. They may not think too highly of church services, or of the pope, or of their Catholic education (if they got one), but those experiences are theirs. They grew up with it. Their parents grew up with it.

Listen, when I first started reading stuff that criticizes religion, I felt ashamed. Even though I had the most open-minded Catholic parents, who never even talked about hell, I still instinctively knew I was doing something I wasn’t supposed to. Complaining about the silly things that Catholicism puts us through is one thing (my friends complained about it too), but seriously considering an outside perspective was out of bounds, and I knew it. This fear set me back a year or more.