Comments on: Kicked Out of the Boy Scouts for Being an Atheist http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/ Atheism with Positivity Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:31:39 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: K.J. http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-370493 K.J. Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:46:40 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-370493 I know it has already been established that Neil is not really an "employee". However, even if he was, I think his being fired would still not be illegal. Even though you can't be fired for prejudice, you can be fired for pretty much any other reason, including, being incapable of performing your job. If the BSA are a big customer and refuse to have anything to do with him (because of their prejudice, not the camps) the camp can fire him for not being able to adequately fill the position. With that said, I am utterly disgusted by the dishonestly of the BSA. They violate their own oath. I'm perfectly fine with them being a private organization, but they need to refuse public funding. I know it has already been established that Neil is not really an “employee”. However, even if he was, I think his being fired would still not be illegal.

Even though you can’t be fired for prejudice, you can be fired for pretty much any other reason, including, being incapable of performing your job. If the BSA are a big customer and refuse to have anything to do with him (because of their prejudice, not the camps) the camp can fire him for not being able to adequately fill the position.

With that said, I am utterly disgusted by the dishonestly of the BSA. They violate their own oath. I’m perfectly fine with them being a private organization, but they need to refuse public funding.

]]> By: Adam http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-360207 Adam Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:22:12 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-360207 I thought part of scouts was everybody being free to believe what they want. And I thought that was also emphasised at Jamborees. This seems unfair I thought part of scouts was everybody being free to believe what they want. And I thought that was also emphasised at Jamborees.

This seems unfair

]]> By: CRL http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-329812 CRL Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:27:20 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-329812 Wow. I didn't know that they actually enforced the ban on atheists. In my sea scout ( a branch of BSA) ship, we have two (including me) semi-open atheists and we don't pray at our meetings. Wow. I didn’t know that they actually enforced the ban on atheists. In my sea scout ( a branch of BSA) ship, we have two (including me) semi-open atheists and we don’t pray at our meetings.

]]> By: Concerned for the facts http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-328463 Concerned for the facts Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:53:03 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-328463 Lets set the facts straight here...Neil is not a paid employee as you might assume he is. The camp at Camp Cherry Valley that he refers to is only one week out of the year and all staff members are volunteer. Neil receives a small reimbursment, not a pay check. I think the bull s**t is on the side of trying to get the whole community in an uproar for something that he had full knowledge of and prosituted for his own gain. Now that he outed himself he feels that he can howl at the moon and look for pathetic sympathy. Shame on you Neil!!! Lets set the facts straight here…Neil is not a paid employee as you might assume he is. The camp at Camp Cherry Valley that he refers to is only one week out of the year and all staff members are volunteer. Neil receives a small reimbursment, not a pay check. I think the bull s**t is on the side of trying to get the whole community in an uproar for something that he had full knowledge of and prosituted for his own gain. Now that he outed himself he feels that he can howl at the moon and look for pathetic sympathy. Shame on you Neil!!!

]]> By: Elsa http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-323815 Elsa Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:09:23 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-323815 The Girl Scouts (GSUSA) are different--they err on the side of PC. It says in our handbook that one may substitute the word "God" in the Girl Scout Promise with anything that represents your beliefs ("Allah," "the Great Spirit," etc.). When I worked at resident camp a few years ago, there were also very strict rules about sleeping, dressing, etc. that were meant to minimize the risk of sexual abuse cases like those that plague the BSA. The Girl Scouts (GSUSA) are different–they err on the side of PC. It says in our handbook that one may substitute the word “God” in the Girl Scout Promise with anything that represents your beliefs (”Allah,” “the Great Spirit,” etc.). When I worked at resident camp a few years ago, there were also very strict rules about sleeping, dressing, etc. that were meant to minimize the risk of sexual abuse cases like those that plague the BSA.

]]> By: Neil Polzin http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-323701 Neil Polzin Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:44:45 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-323701 for what it is worth, you can be employed in the BSA as a female, they just dont allow them to be youth members. Thank you for your kinds words, they come in handy in times like this Neil Polzin npolzin@gmail.com for what it is worth, you can be employed in the BSA as a female, they just dont allow them to be youth members.

Thank you for your kinds words, they come in handy in times like this

Neil Polzin
npolzin@gmail.com

]]> By: Neil Polzin http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-323697 Neil Polzin Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:36:32 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-323697 Thank you. I must of missed this being posted, but I am catching the other blogs picking up on you! I have sent off a request to the Southern California ACLU, lets see what can change. Thank you. I must of missed this being posted, but I am catching the other blogs picking up on you! I have sent off a request to the Southern California ACLU, lets see what can change.

]]> By: Richard Murray http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-323342 Richard Murray Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:32:21 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-323342 As far as I have ever heard, this level of religiousness is exclusive to the Boy Scouts of AMERICA, not to the world-wide organisation. Yes, there is reference to god and the queen in Canadian and Commonwealth countries, but it's pretty much a token statement. In Canada we never went to church, except to participate in the local community's Remembrance Day ceremonies with the war vets. There was no prayer involved at all, and I remember having friends in the troop who were Bahai, Muslim, Sikh, and atheistic. God didn't have anything to do with tying knots or camping at the lake, and any special god-related things were a private matter (except the hotdogs... always had the good beef ones thanks to our Muslim friend :) The 'god and queen' reference is as shallow and empty as the "in god we trust" on US currency - if it went away, it wouldn't change the heart of the program. I'd have no trouble as an atheist sending a kid to Canadian Scouts... but I might caution against him hanging around with the BSA types at camps. As far as I have ever heard, this level of religiousness is exclusive to the Boy Scouts of AMERICA, not to the world-wide organisation. Yes, there is reference to god and the queen in Canadian and Commonwealth countries, but it’s pretty much a token statement.

In Canada we never went to church, except to participate in the local community’s Remembrance Day ceremonies with the war vets. There was no prayer involved at all, and I remember having friends in the troop who were Bahai, Muslim, Sikh, and atheistic. God didn’t have anything to do with tying knots or camping at the lake, and any special god-related things were a private matter (except the hotdogs… always had the good beef ones thanks to our Muslim friend :)

The ‘god and queen’ reference is as shallow and empty as the “in god we trust” on US currency – if it went away, it wouldn’t change the heart of the program.

I’d have no trouble as an atheist sending a kid to Canadian Scouts… but I might caution against him hanging around with the BSA types at camps.

]]> By: Boy Scouts of America – A Poor Role Model http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-322943 Boy Scouts of America – A Poor Role Model Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:07:19 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-322943 [...] [Read the story here.] [...] [...] [Read the story here.] [...]

]]> By: Will http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/06/25/kicked-out-of-the-boy-scouts-for-being-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-322790 Will Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:11:28 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=12983#comment-322790 Hey guys grammer and sentance structure were never my strong points in H.S. (probably why I teach chemistry). What do you all think? My name is William, I am an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow Brotherhood member, I have 60 merit badges, I obtained the Ad Altare Dei and Pope Pius XII award, and I am an Atheist. I was in Boy Scouts from 1993 to 2009 when I left because I no longer agreed that you had to believe in god(s) in order to be a successful person. I know that the BSA is a private organization and can exclude members of certain communities based on their sexual orientation or non-religious preference but to fire an otherwise upstanding camp counselor because of this is just disgraceful. I am ashamed and appalled that this organization that has given me so many opportunities and opened many doors in my life cannot see the great things that this man has done and can only see him as a one word person. In short I believe that it is irresponsible for you to fire this man based on a non-performance issue. Hey guys grammer and sentance structure were never my strong points in H.S. (probably why I teach chemistry). What do you all think?

My name is William, I am an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow Brotherhood member, I have 60 merit badges, I obtained the Ad Altare Dei and Pope Pius XII award, and I am an Atheist. I was in Boy Scouts from 1993 to 2009 when I left because I no longer agreed that you had to believe in god(s) in order to be a successful person. I know that the BSA is a private organization and can exclude members of certain communities based on their sexual orientation or non-religious preference but to fire an otherwise upstanding camp counselor because of this is just disgraceful. I am ashamed and appalled that this organization that has given me so many opportunities and opened many doors in my life cannot see the great things that this man has done and can only see him as a one word person.
In short I believe that it is irresponsible for you to fire this man based on a non-performance issue.

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