John 14:14 Pray for anything you want, if you ask for anything in my name I will do it……ya right!

We all know that doesn’t work but christians keep on praying. Its done out of discipline and fear.

We all know praying is a selfish act of wanting something. I never pray, so if there is a God I am sure he would be proud of me for rolling up my sleeves and figuring lifes problems out myself rather then mumbling scripted church words selfishly wanting something to happen.

Come on people break those religious fears and enjoy your life as it unfolds everyday.

Jesus (whatever his real and proper name, was) was a human being. Historical facts have now established that the concept of Jesus as a God and Trinity were established much later and came into Vogue during the time of Constantin.

See this documentary aired on BBC and History Channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3D28Ys-dp4

Be intellectually honest. You don’t know, so don’t pretend to.

I’m not pretending to. You agreed there was no reason to suppose praying did anything – “I have no idea” you wrote. If there is no reason to suppose it does anything,why would anyone insist it might?

Apart from any psychological effects then, praying does nothing.

Be intellectually honest. You don’t know, so don’t pretend to.

I have no idea. My point was that prayer claims are not falsifiable and prayer studies are not scientifically credible.

Thank you. If you pray, there is no reason to think you are more likely to get the thing you prayed for than if you didn’t pray. Apart from any psychological effects then, praying does nothing.

..do people who pray for things get these things on average more often than people who do not pray for them?

I have no idea. My point was that prayer claims are not falsifiable and prayer studies are not scientifically credible.

Brooks,

I’m not ignoring anything. I’ve never seen God heal an amputee.

ATL-Apostate,

I don’t see how omnipotence and eternal presence are incompatible. You apparently define omnipotence as the ability to do the logically impossible. I do not. How any of that relates to the credibility of prayer studies is also beyond me.

Are you suggesting that your god is not a biological life form?

I’m suggesting that God > biological life.

MikeTheInfidel,

First of all, the claim was that faith is required for prayer to be answered.

Correct. Do you dispute that receive is categorically synonymous with have answered? “If you believe, you will receive…” That can be reasonably translated to, “if we have faith, our prayers will be answered.” Yes? No? If not, why not?

Second, that verse says nothing at all about what happens if you pray and you don’t believe.

That’s correct. Other verses cover this quite well. I have to ask, though – How does any of this relate to whether or not prayer studies are credible? That was my original argument.

You haven’t done anything to support the claim of the necessity of faith for prayer to be answered.

There’s nothing else I can do if you deny that Matthew 21:22 supports my claim. It’s now on you to show how receive differs significantly from have answered.

If you’re going to assert that it not be taken literally, you’re going to have to justify your decisions regarding what is and is not literal and metaphorical.

That’s correct, and we bear the same burden with most any historical work.

If the claim is that absolutely crucial components of your god’s nature – that he is omnipotent, that he never lies, and that he answers prayer – are not to be literally accepted in conjunction with each other, I can only assume that you don’t believe them all.

I’ve not claimed that.

How you can claim to know the accuracy of the bible’s descriptions of your god’s character, I don’t know.

I don’t. But it doesn’t take much to claim the logically impossible is logically impossible.

As far as your comments on my discussion with Skeptico, that God answers prayers does not necessarily entail that God has changed his mind. Your conclusion doesn’t flow from your premise. As for 2, perhaps people’s prayers do sometimes go along with God’s plan. Even if we grant that for sake of discussion, that doesn’t support your conclusion that the prayer was a meaningless gesture, or that it has no effect.

AJ,

Sadly, his responses have been the same intellectually dishonest rationalizations that drove me away from the church to begin with.

Thanks for judging me. I submit that the whole world is pink through rose-colored glasses.

Sadly, his responses have been the same intellectually dishonest rationalizations that drove me away from the church to begin with.

And I’m still waiting for God to heal an amputee.

Although I don’t believe there is a god of any kind, I think I can answer your comment:

God might be waiting for his followers to ask for his help before he helps them. Either to get them to exercise their faith, or so that he will be sure to get “glory” out of it.
After all, if he were to just heal everything in everyone willy-nilly ASAP, nobody’d notice him – so the reasoning might go. There’s be no testimony.

I think the study clearly refutes this idea, but believers don’t pray based on the latest studies.