Comments on: What Happens When Atheism is the Norm Instead of the Exception?

By: Anna

Anna — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:30:06 +0000

I just finished Society Without God and found it completely and utterly fascinating. Hemant, I’d love to see you do a book review of this one! I definitely learned a lot, and it’s a compelling look at a society that is so different from what most of us are used to.

By: CelticBear’s Musings » Blog Archive » Grumpy Christians, and grumpier atheists.

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:00:01 +0000

[...] What Happens When Atheism is the Norm Instead of the Exception? [...]

By: Polly

Polly — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:08:45 +0000

I have a colleague who grew up in Japan. He told me that society is based purely on what’s reasonable, there are no religious considerations in public policy. OK, we probably all knew that, but what really struck me was when I asked him about his own religious beliefs (Xian):

Me: Wait a minute, you’re a Christian? Do you believe in Noah and that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?

Him:You mean ACTUALLY happened? No, that’s crazy. Nobody thinks those things actually happened. They’re just stories making a moral point.

me: Do you think Jesus is the son of god, and god himself.?

him: What?!? No, he’s just a man teaching good things.

He really couldn’t fathom that people take this stuff LITERALLY. He didn’t BELIEVE me when I told him so!

I swear I almost packed my bags for Tokyo!

I really had fun imagining living in a society not pervaded with the AUTHORITY of religion. I know they have religion and even rituals. But, I don’t think it’s the same.

By: gribblethemunchkin

gribblethemunchkin — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:03:20 +0000

I live in England but follow American politics regularly, one thing that always makes me laugh is the way right wing types (well hello Fox news) go crazy at the idea of socialism. And yet social deomcracies seem to have the best standard of living, health care, education, etc of any nations in the world. I know many Swedes and have been to Stockholm and far from being a grotty dark hellhole i have to say that the city beats anything England has to offer. Swedes live longer, healthier, happier lives than Americans and Brits. Its definately the culture to emulate. Indeed on getting back to Blighty my girlfriend and I immediately swore we would return to Sweden, we liked it that much.

As for the religion angle. I believe that state religions combined with an enlightnment such as many European nations (England included) helped deal a grevious blow to religion. I also believe that when the living is good, there is less desire for god. America is a very capitalist country and while some people do very well for themselves, they are the few. I am very much shocked by how little Americans have in the way of workers rights, job protection, healthcare, education, etc. I think that maybe religion provides a stable anchor for the lives of many people who otherwise live lifes of great uncertainty.

For those of you who have not been to Sweden, i cannot recommend it enough. I am reliably informed that Denmark and Norway are also lovely (although my Swedish chums were quick to point out that they were less lovely than Sweden).

By: i am a dodt

i am a dodt — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 00:14:09 +0000

Maybe it’s a matter of state-supported power versus self-supported power? I don’t know.

By: Ada

Ada — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 18:25:30 +0000

Felicia is spot on for Denmark as well. Most people are members of the Church of Denmark and pay the “church tax” which keeps it all in business. My husband (one of the few who happily calls himself an atheist and has consciously thought about these things) was a member until a couple of years ago, defending his decision by saying it keeps the buildings in good shape to preserve history.

As an American atheist living in Denmark, the “religion” here is glaringly obvious. I mean, American atheists would never send their kids to church to sing hymns for fun, and though they may still put up a “solstice tree,” they weed out the songs that reference Jesus. Danes don’t care about these things. Sure, teach them Christianity in public schools. No one takes it seriously anyway. That attitude doesn’t work in America.

In my experience, openly being an atheist in Denmark is about on par with openly being a Christian in Denmark. Everyone is still asking, “why do you care enough to mention it?”

By: Felicia Gilljam

Felicia Gilljam — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:16:42 +0000

Justin – Denmark still has a state church and the Church of Sweden only separated from the state about ten years ago. 7 out of 9 million Swedes are still more or less unwittingly members of our former state church (having been enrolled as infants back when that was automatically done) and pay hundreds of dollars to it every year in membership fees, sneakily collected through the same governmental body that collects taxes (hopefully this will change eventually). Also, all sufficiently old churches – I can’t remember exactly how old – are protected by the state as “cultural mementos” and hence receive extra money for upkeep. That’s why we have so many churches, still. We just see them as pretty buildings, mostly.

By: The Everyday Atheist

The Everyday Atheist — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:14:45 +0000

I’m not educated enough on world affairs or atheism to add to this discussion. But, I want to thank all of you for helping me learn more about both subjects. I truly look foreword to reading each post.

By: Jakob H. Heidelberg

Jakob H. Heidelberg — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:10:11 +0000

@GullWatcher

Thanks for the answer. Immigrants in Denmark tend to follow danish ways of living life, but still preserving parts of their old culture (including religion). With most muslims it’s a bit different, they tend to get even more religulous than what they are in their home country (from what I hear). They tend to pick up on their old values and hold on to then event stronger in a “foreign” environment.

@Siamang

Thanks – that makes sense.

@i am a dodt

Do you think it would be a “danger” to the danish society if we removed the church as part of the state and law? Do you think religulous groups and churches could “take over” the minds of people just because of money and power? Would that be possible in a country were most gods are PRACTICALLY dead (in everyday life they are, but when things get rough some people can’t leave them behind)?

Personally I can’t see that happening, but maybe you think that’s a possible risk – so that I would like to know.

Best regards

By: miller

miller — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 09:04:47 +0000

At jakobs comment about a secular society being so poisoned by religion, I think religion in America is actually a perfect example of the benefits of a free market. With no state religion it was a free for all between churches and competition between them led to an explosion of religion in America.

Whereas the european countries with state religions provided no competition between churches and over time belief dwindled.