Comments on: Responding to the Ignorance

By: Graham Ford

Graham Ford — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 01:25:59 +0000

The difficult with this slogan is that it is almost certainly incorrect. Philosoher Keith Ward’s excellent book, Why There is Almost Certainly a God, shows clearly the extremely shaky basis for what has become the bus slogan. Unable to construct a satisfactory resposte, Dawkins has to simply pretend Christian’s don’t think, rather like saying all swans are white. Well, this black swan does think.

By: Clare

Clare — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:32:05 +0000

I’m sorry but I have to correct you a little on this one. The Atheist Bus Campaign did not receive “great initial publicity” from Ariane Sherine, because she was the one who came up with the original idea in her blog for the Comment is Free section on the website for the Guardian newspaper. Public response to the idea was so great that the British Humanist Association and Richard Dawkins became involved too.

The original post where she first suggests the idea is here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/20/transport.religion

By: sinistr

sinistr — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:55:08 +0000

I’ve been godless for about 45+ years but been on my own raising kids and busy just surviving however with retirement I can now pursue my “spirituality” or whatever it’s called. I did my fair share of christian baiting when I was young just for the fun of it but not for many years now. I see atheists like Richard Dawkins advocating not allowing kids to be taught their religion by their parents. “Let the kids choose for them selves” he says. I see the logic behind his words but to force one’s will on another group is just plain wrong. After years of being “ruled” by christians why would atheists want to force their views on others? It simply won’t work anyway, prohibition of any kind just drives what is being prohibited underground. Hasn’t anyone learned this simple truth? If atheists do try and force others to their will don’t we become what we were complaining about not that long ago.
I raised my kids as I saw fit and I never passed on my atheism to them for pretty much the same reason (let them choose) and I would have been hopping mad if I had been forced to raise them christian. I can imagine the howls of protest from the religous if they were forced to raise their kids in anything but their own religion. My son decided to be a christian and for 20 years we have very civil discussions. Come to think of it this communication has added to our relationship and most often we agree to disagree. My daughter choose New Age and we have “spirited” discussions as well. We are still a very close family despite being of 3 different philosophies. Besides the way I see it we all wear “colored glasses” to view and interpret the world. Why should my glasses be any better than anothers? I treat all religous views as theories including my own. This way I can step outside my beliefs or lack of them.

Thank you.

By: Cannonball Jones

Cannonball Jones — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:03:57 +0000

I don’t see how they could have worded it any better than ‘probably’. It shows a level of humility that the religious seem incapable of and other than that it’s just plain true. We can’t see for definite there are no gods but the gaps they inhabit are shrinking at a frightening rate. There’s going to be a hell of a divine homeless problem before long…

By: Aj

Aj — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:11:35 +0000

Probably can mean “almost certainly”, “likely”, or “most likely among several options”, so it’s more inclusive. Ariane Sherine called it “shorter and catchier” and “more lighthearted” even though she agreed it wasn’t as accurate, Richard Dawkins came round to it. I agree with those points, but I still think accuracy is best, because inaccuracy tends to come back and bite you.

While it’s true that the advertisement agency required “probably” in there. Ariane Sherine, Richard Dawkins, didn’t want “there is no god”, Dawkins wanted “almost certainly” but “probably” was voted for. While it was a requirement, I am confident they would have included it anyway.

By: SarahH

SarahH — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:08:47 +0000

I think “probably” is perfect Thanks Hemant, for defending outstanding awesomeness!

By: Richard

Richard — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:18:32 +0000

As well as being intellectually honest, the wording seems just right in contrast to the absolutes of the christians. In any case, we brits do understatement.

By: Tao Jones

Tao Jones — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:03:25 +0000

‘Probably’ is more precise. We don’t *know* that gods don’t exist.

‘Probably’ sounds nicer. Why should anyone consider our message if we’re not willing to consider the possibility that we’re wrong?

‘Probably’ makes the statement an opinion and not a claim. If it could be demonstrated that God does exist, it wouldn’t invalidate the statement. I was involved in a M&A where I had go through all our collateral and remove anything that could be construed as a claim where we did not have supporting documentation. It was a huge job but a necessary one for legal purposes.

‘Probably’ was probably the best choice, though I prefer “almost certainly.”

By: Paul R

Paul R — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:48:23 +0000

Just wanted to point out that the ‘Probably’ was included because the company that controls the adverts said that they wouldn’t run them without it. So no wussing out on the message, just pragmatism in getting the message out in the first place.

By: Greta Christina

Greta Christina — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 07:52:48 +0000

How shocking. What a ridiculous waste of money. They couldn’t think of anything better to do with £135,000 than to spend it on the exact project that the money was raised for.

(rolling eyes)

As for “evidence against God”… with all due respect, jodi, I beg to differ. True, there’s no absolutely conclusive evidence against God… but there’s some pretty damning circumstantial evidence.

The consistent and overwhelming replacement of religious explanations of the world with natural ones… and the fact that not once has this happened in reverse. The complete failure of religious believers to come to any agreement on what God is like, or even to come up with a reliable method for figuring that out. The fact that arguments for religion always boil down to authority, anecdote, personal experience, the idea that religion shouldn’t have to logically defend its claims, or the redefining of God into an abstraction. The consistent diminishment over time in what God’s powers are believed to be, even by people who believe in him. The fact that the religion you were raised in as a child is the single strongest factor in determining what religion you’re likely to be. The fact that everything we think of as the soul is increasingly being shown to have physical causes. The complete failure of any sort of supernatural phenomenon to stand up to rigorous testing. The slippery, unfalsifiable nature of religious belief. The complete failure of religion to improve over time: no improved prayer or prophecy techniques, no better ability to predict God’s behavior, no method for settling religious disputes.

And most importantly: the complete and utter lack of good evidence in favor of God.

We’ve been looking for evidence for God for hundreds, indeed thousands of years. We haven’t found any. Not a scrap. That, just by itself, is pretty darned strong evidence against his existence.

The bus signs are right. There’s probably no God.