* I’m not saying beliefs are necessarily entitled to respect, but the human beings that hold them are (at least up to a point).

Steve Caldwell: “Most of the comments from Unitarian Universalists readers on my blog were dismissive of Greta’s suggestions.”

They were dismissive of her on the matter of not dividing atheists into good and bad ones, which glosses over the fact that atheists, including prominent ones, have acted badly–and the resulting anger from both theists and atheists. The division already exists. There are atheists who try hard to understand theists even as they criticize them, and there are atheists who act as if they don’t give a damn about whether they are caricaturing their adversaries. This shouldn’t be swept under the rug.

I’d like to rework the converse list a bit:

1. Familiarize yourself with what moderate and liberal theists actually believe, and the common myths and misconceptions about them. If you were brought up religious, don’t assume that your experience was the entire extent of that religion. Do not assume that to be in religion X, you must believe Y.

2. Familiarize yourself with what it’s like to be a non-fundamentalist theist, both in the U.S. and in the rest of the world. Learn about persecution of religion in countries other than your own, and learn what fundamentalists have to say about their less closed-minded counterparts.

3. Find common ground, and agree to disagree.

4. Speak out against anti-theist bigotry, real religious persecution and other forms of anti-religious intolerance.

5. Be inclusive of theists.

6. Do not accuse moderate/liberal theists of being in league with, “providing cover for”, fundamentalists. Do not mistake tolerance for consent, and do not mistake the absence of attack for agreement. There may be good reasons why theists don’t want to attack people that you want attacked. Find out what they are.

7. If you’re going to accuse a theist or an theist group of being intolerant — be careful, and make sure that’s really what they’re being. Don’t assume that a theist is angry at you, or that they don’t share your anger.

8. Do not — repeat, DO NOT — Deny, Ignore or Minimize the existence of anti-theists.

9. Do not throw around words like “crutch”, “superstition”, “delusion” or “child abuse”. If you think someone is wrong, a simple “I think you’re wrong” will suffice.

One final comment about the term “fundamentalist atheist”:

Theists who use this “fundamentalist atheists” usually don’t believe that there are any “fundamentals” of Atheism. Rather, they’re referring to Atheists who act like religious fundamentalists.

Remember that from the mainline/liberal point of view, religious fundamentalists don’t actually believe in the “fundamentals” of their own religion; e.g. fundamentalist Muslims generally don’t believe in justice and mercy, and fundamentalist Christians generally don’t seem to believe that “God is love”.

On the other hand, some anti-theists have a nasty habit of saying things that only fundamentalists could agree with:

Given my view of faith, I think that religious “moderation” is basically an elaborate exercise in self-deception, while you seem to think it is a legitimate and intellectually defensible alternative to fundamentalism.

– Sam Harris

If you go around claiming that fundamentalist religion is the only true, authentic or defensible form of religion, don’t get upset when people call you a fundamentalist.

First, let me say this: If you want to know how to talk to a person with a different perspective than yours, I don’t think it would be wise to assume or generalize anything. I’ve never met two theists (or two atheists for that matter) who shared the exact same beliefs.

It seems odd to me to provide a “list” of rules or guidelines to follow when open communication is what you’re after.

If I were forced to make a list, I would have three things on the list:

1. Ask sincere questions.
2. Listen with genuine interest and an open mind.
3. Repeat as necessary to achieve understanding.

1. Familiarize yourself with the common myths and misconceptions about theists — and don’t perpetuate them like “fundamentalist atheists” aka Atheist Supremacists do. . .

2. Familiarize yourself with what it’s like to be a theist, both in the U.S. and in the rest of the world.

3. Find common ground.

4. Speak out against anti-theist bigotry and other forms of anti-religious intolerance.

5. Be inclusive of theists.

6. Don’t divide and conquer, and don’t try to take away our anger at “fundamentalist atheists” aka Atheist Supremacists perpetuating common myths and misconceptions about theists

7. If you’re going to accuse a theist or an theist group of being intolerant — be careful, and make sure that’s really what they’re being.

8. Do not — repeat, DO NOT — Deny, Ignore or Minimize the existence of “fundamentalist atheists” aka Atheist Supremacists.

9. Be aware of how religious belief gives has had a place in mainstream society for several millennia[sic]. Show a modicum of respect for that.

I would change it to be less negative (it came in the middle of what appeared to be an argument). Here’s how I would word it.

1. Familiarize yourself with the common myths and misconceptions about theists.

2. Familiarize yourself with what it’s like to be a theist, both in the U.S. and in the rest of the world.

3. Find common ground.

4. Speak out against anti-theist bigotry and other forms of anti-religious intolerance.

5. Be inclusive of theists.

6. (I’m not sure about six)

7. If you’re going to accuse a theist or an theist group of being intolerant — be careful, and make sure that’s really what they’re being.

8. Do not — repeat, DO NOT — Deny, Ignore or Minimize the existence of “Atheist Supremacists.”

9. (again, I see problems with this one)

I posted the same abbreviated list of suggestions on my Unitarian Universalist-themed blog:

http://liberalfaith.blogspot.com/2008/12/supporting-atheists-as-anti-oppression.html

Most of the comments from Unitarian Universalists readers on my blog were dismissive of Greta’s suggestions.

So much for the stereotype that Unitarian Universalism is a hot-bed of humanism.

It can be very frustrating when you need to check up on an answer that you don’t know and have the person you’re debating think they win by default.

Just because they don’t have an answer doesn’t make the other answer correct.

Realize that many, if not most, people have not read the entire bible and almost nobody has the whole thing memorized.

That’s all I got. Time for the real theists to step up.

One of the things that annoyed me was being lumped in with fundamentalists.

It also bothered me when people assumed what political party I was.

I happened to be a creationist, but if I wasn’t I would’ve probably gotten peeved if people assumed that I was.

Now I really want to see an actual list.

Mike Clawson? Linda? Would you be up to the task?

* a corollary goes along the lines of don’t say it takes as much faith to be an atheist as to be a theist, don’t say we believe science on faith etc.