Comments on: Why do Churches Fear Gay Marriage?

By: Caught My Eye

Caught My Eye — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:02:56 +0000

[...] Friendly Atheist – Why do Churches Fear Gay Marriage? "The possibility that a whole new generation of American males is being raised by women without men is very challenging for the churches." – Richard Rodriguez (tags: lgbt humanrights usa) [...]

By: Milena

Milena — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:14:01 +0000

Ok, I just finished reading the whole interview. It’s definitely worth reading through to understand Rodriguez’s ideas. I think he posits a very valid and well-thought-out critique of religion and it’s position on gay rights.

By: Milena

Milena — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:41:05 +0000

Same-sex marriage would disrupt the traditional power-structure of a patriarchal heterosexual relationships, because, in terms of gender at least, both partners are equal and this equality would be legitimized by the State. I think this is what Rodriguez is getting at. This is not to say that there aren’t equal heterosexual relationships, but they aren’t as obviously in opposition of patriarchal marriage as same-sex relationships. I mean, you look at a heterosexual couple and you instantly make assumptions about both people’s roles within the couple, and those assumptions usually follow traditional patriarchal patterns. These assumptions then inform the way in which you interact with both partners and view them. Non-traditional relationships, such as same-sex marriage, disrupt this view, because it isn’t immediately apparent how one should categorize each partner, and we humans do love our categories!

I think there is some validity to this view of things. It isn’t enough to say that Prop 8 was supported by people who were bigots, because something has to be informing and feeding this bigotry. It’s fear of the unknown, the untraditional, the changing. It’s fear of challenges to a heterosexist patriarchy. Thsi is why a patriarchal structure like the Church is so afraid of same-sex marriage.

By: Brooks

Brooks — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:03:42 +0000

When you think about it though, isn’t homophobia sort of like a form of sexism in itself?

By: Justin

Justin — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:51:04 +0000

I used to think it was sin to be gay, then I met some gay people. It’s not about fear. It’s about a deeply held belief and standing up for that belief. The cure is education and exposure to people not like oneself. This is how tolerance comes.

By: RobL

RobL — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:59:31 +0000

Jedipunk – you may be correct, I don’t have the data. I have always assumed that when financial times are tough the decision to divorce becomes more difficult and the rates go down. From personal experience I don’t think living together first made my wife and I less likely to divorce and that’s the consensus of my long married friends as well.

I’m wondering if living together today is less socially acceptable than it was 21 years ago when I did it. In the Bay Area at the time no one thought much of it, including our Episcopal priest. With the resurgence of evangelical busy body’s and the country’s lurch right I wonder if the taboo is back and I am unaware of it.

By: Larry Huffman

Larry Huffman — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:56:43 +0000

I think the chruch fears gay marriage the way it feared the idea that the earth is round and revolves around the sun. It fears gay marriage the way it has feared jews, muslims and other religions types. It fears gay marriage the same way it fears evolution.

The christian church fears all that can stand in opposition to it. It is a man made istitution…with no modern god helping people to understand how things really are…it is a snapshot of what men thought about their environment roughly 2K – 6K years ago. I think many christians know this…they know how fragile their entire premise is…and the only way they can keep it relevent is to loudly proclaim their righteousness and the wrong of everything else.

Even if they look idiotic doing it. I would suggest anyone who wants to really see the lunacy of the christian church read an account of the trials of galileo…you know, where the church loudly proclaimed the earth was flat…and to say otherwise was heresy? To speak the truth was against god is in effect what they said. Over nad over. Until the proof was overwhelming…then they just got quiet about it. After all…during the trials, many leading theologians stated that if the earth was round and revolved around the sun, all of chrisitianity was false. They said it. You can look it up. They admitted, when they thought for sure the world was flat…that saying toherwise would completely refute their religion. Now, no one talks about the fact that god said in his perfect holy book that the earth was flat, under a dome, and everything revolved around it.

The point is…the chrisitan church fears that which proves it wrong. Proof that the church is inaccurate it pretty devastating, since nothing can prove it true…only the bible supports it. Today, huge portions of the bible are ignored for this reason. One day soon, gay marriage will be allowed…evolution will be scientifically accepted, while creationism will be mythology.

Flat earth – evolution – gay marriage…they all seem to be dissimilar, but they are not in this context. They are all things that the church has or still does fear. Why? They challenge the completely unsupported doctrine with common sense and proof and ethical high-ground.

By: Miko

Miko — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:52:53 +0000

I look forward to the day when government gets out of the marriage business entirely. Let society define marriage, and let the government provide a high level framework to support any kind of union people want.

Fixed: I look forward to the day when government gets out of the marriage business entirely. Let individual participants define marriage, and let the government provide exactly the same framework it does in all other areas of contract law. Seriously though, as desirable a goal as this is, it's desirability-to-unlikeliness ratio is very low. Marriage is way too entangled into current law to make separation of relationship and state a tangible goal.

By: Jeff Satterley

Jeff Satterley — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:24:33 +0000

t3knomanser:

//I also think legal language should be refined until it’s Turing complete, but that’s another debate.

LOL! This comment puts an image in my head of judges spinning around in circles stuck in an infinite loop trying to determine the outcome of a court case. Well done

By: Brian's A Wild Downer

Brian's A Wild Downer — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:38:19 +0000

Yes the christians will get over being against gay marriage. Then years later they’ll be telling us that they’re responsible for giving gays equal rights.