Comments on: Atheist Author Julian Barnes on the Topic of Death http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/11/02/atheist-author-julian-barnes-on-the-topic-of-death/ Atheism with Positivity Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:59:18 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: mikespeir http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/11/02/atheist-author-julian-barnes-on-the-topic-of-death/comment-page-1/#comment-242616 mikespeir Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:43:20 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5444#comment-242616 I have the same instinctual aversion to dying as anybody, but I really can't get all that worked up over it. When I do think about it I find myself more sorry for those I'll be leaving behind. Myself, I think I was more afraid of it as a Christian. What if, no matter how I was assured or tried to assure myself, it really did matter how I held my mouth? What if I hadn't been doing it right all along? I have the same instinctual aversion to dying as anybody, but I really can’t get all that worked up over it. When I do think about it I find myself more sorry for those I’ll be leaving behind. Myself, I think I was more afraid of it as a Christian. What if, no matter how I was assured or tried to assure myself, it really did matter how I held my mouth? What if I hadn’t been doing it right all along?

]]> By: Autumnal Harvest http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/11/02/atheist-author-julian-barnes-on-the-topic-of-death/comment-page-1/#comment-242551 Autumnal Harvest Mon, 03 Nov 2008 06:43:47 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5444#comment-242551 Cathy, I'm not a Christian, but I think might be helpful to quote more of the verse that bud cited: <blockquote>For to me, living is Christ and dying is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labour for me; and I do not know which I prefer. I am hard pressed between the two: my desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better; but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you. (Phil 1:21-23, NRSV)</blockquote> I suspect few Christians actually long for death, and only want to live out of altruism, as Paul claimed to---regardless of what they believe will happen after they die, the biological urge to live is probably too deeply rooted. Cathy, I’m not a Christian, but I think might be helpful to quote more of the verse that bud cited:

For to me, living is Christ and dying is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labour for me; and I do not know which I prefer. I am hard pressed between the two: my desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better; but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you. (Phil 1:21-23, NRSV)

I suspect few Christians actually long for death, and only want to live out of altruism, as Paul claimed to—regardless of what they believe will happen after they die, the biological urge to live is probably too deeply rooted.

]]> By: BZ http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/11/02/atheist-author-julian-barnes-on-the-topic-of-death/comment-page-1/#comment-242514 BZ Mon, 03 Nov 2008 03:50:23 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5444#comment-242514 I think he may have meant that the level of the fear of death in a Christians life is generally <em>inversely</em> proportionate to the depth of faith. It is easy to see why they could try to live while not fearing death if they truly believed, because that would be the moral thing to do so they could help others. I think he may have meant that the level of the fear of death in a Christians life is generally inversely proportionate to the depth of faith. It is easy to see why they could try to live while not fearing death if they truly believed, because that would be the moral thing to do so they could help others.

]]> By: Cathy http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/11/02/atheist-author-julian-barnes-on-the-topic-of-death/comment-page-1/#comment-242508 Cathy Mon, 03 Nov 2008 03:15:27 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5444#comment-242508 bud, it doesn't really look like you answered my question. I understand the idea that someone might want to be good during their life to avoid hell, go to heaven, act like Jesus, etc. but wouldn't they still want to die and go to heaven as soon as possible if "the end of life becomes the transition to eternal happiness"? Or are you saying that people who live longer get more heaven points, kind of like frequent flyer miles? bud, it doesn’t really look like you answered my question. I understand the idea that someone might want to be good during their life to avoid hell, go to heaven, act like Jesus, etc. but wouldn’t they still want to die and go to heaven as soon as possible if “the end of life becomes the transition to eternal happiness”? Or are you saying that people who live longer get more heaven points, kind of like frequent flyer miles?

]]> By: bud http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/11/02/atheist-author-julian-barnes-on-the-topic-of-death/comment-page-1/#comment-242500 bud Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:48:02 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5444#comment-242500 cathy, the foundational Christian perspective of death is stated by the Apostle Paul: "For me, to live is Christ, to die is gain." Our duty, as Christians, is to always be prepared to share the reason for the joy within us. To love our neighbors in a non-judgmental manner. To give without reservation, help without being asked, and to treat others as we would want to be treated. I, for one, would not like someone coming up to me and say "i am right and you are wrong. don't be stupid. let me hit you in the head with this Book, then maybe you will understand." but I would appreciate someone who listens to me explain the pains of guilt in my life, and then offers their understanding of how to relieve this pain by giving it to a loving God who offers to take it for us. How this God freely offers victory over our earthly death, so that the end of life becomes the transition to eternal happiness. Before this transition is to live representing the Truth of Christ's Goodness in love, not legalism, which builds for us "treasures in heaven" and after is the gaining of heaven and these treasures. The level of the fear of death in a Christians life is generally proportionate to the depth of faith. cathy,
the foundational Christian perspective of death is stated by the Apostle Paul: “For me, to live is Christ, to die is gain.” Our duty, as Christians, is to always be prepared to share the reason for the joy within us. To love our neighbors in a non-judgmental manner. To give without reservation, help without being asked, and to treat others as we would want to be treated. I, for one, would not like someone coming up to me and say “i am right and you are wrong. don’t be stupid. let me hit you in the head with this Book, then maybe you will understand.” but I would appreciate someone who listens to me explain the pains of guilt in my life, and then offers their understanding of how to relieve this pain by giving it to a loving God who offers to take it for us. How this God freely offers victory over our earthly death, so that the end of life becomes the transition to eternal happiness. Before this transition is to live representing the Truth of Christ’s Goodness in love, not legalism, which builds for us “treasures in heaven” and after is the gaining of heaven and these treasures. The level of the fear of death in a Christians life is generally proportionate to the depth of faith.

]]> By: t3knomanser http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/11/02/atheist-author-julian-barnes-on-the-topic-of-death/comment-page-1/#comment-242493 t3knomanser Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:55:36 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5444#comment-242493 I dunno, Cathy. Death is something to be scared in the same way that we should be scared of getting hit by a car. Look both ways, but most of the time, don't bother thinking about it. I dunno, Cathy. Death is something to be scared in the same way that we should be scared of getting hit by a car. Look both ways, but most of the time, don’t bother thinking about it.

]]> By: Cathy http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/11/02/atheist-author-julian-barnes-on-the-topic-of-death/comment-page-1/#comment-242492 Cathy Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:14:52 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5444#comment-242492 I don't see why death shouldn't be scary. It's not good to let that fear take all of the joy out of the time you have, but I think being scared of death and not wanting to die is perfectly fine. Death sucks, this is a great reason to fight for a good national health care system and to advocate peace. I always wonder though, why Christians are afraid of death when they think they are going to paradise. You think they would put less effort into survival if they really believed that. I don’t see why death shouldn’t be scary. It’s not good to let that fear take all of the joy out of the time you have, but I think being scared of death and not wanting to die is perfectly fine. Death sucks, this is a great reason to fight for a good national health care system and to advocate peace.

I always wonder though, why Christians are afraid of death when they think they are going to paradise. You think they would put less effort into survival if they really believed that.

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