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	<title>Comments on: What Bothers You About the Atheist Subculture?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/</link>
	<description>Atheism with Positivity</description>
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		<title>By: NYCatheist</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240982</link>
		<dc:creator>NYCatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 03:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240982</guid>
		<description>Great post. This turned me off recently:
http://friendlyatheist.com/4097/more-drama-in-the-world-of-organized-atheism/

I need to think of a new nickname I guess. I&#039;m kind of burned out with the whole scene. It&#039;s a combination of the idiocy described in the link above, some of the criticism in the post and comments here, and plain old waning interest.

Pretty much the only &quot;atheist&quot; activity I do now is read this blog. (And watch ProfMTH&#039;s channel on youtube! What? You don&#039;t know him? For shame!)

If my current busy lifestyle lightens up and I can get back into some active group I will probably go for the NYC Skeptics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. This turned me off recently:<br />
<a href="http://friendlyatheist.com/4097/more-drama-in-the-world-of-organized-atheism/" rel="nofollow">http://friendlyatheist.com/4097/more-drama-in-the-world-of-organized-atheism/</a></p>
<p>I need to think of a new nickname I guess. I&#8217;m kind of burned out with the whole scene. It&#8217;s a combination of the idiocy described in the link above, some of the criticism in the post and comments here, and plain old waning interest.</p>
<p>Pretty much the only &#8220;atheist&#8221; activity I do now is read this blog. (And watch ProfMTH&#8217;s channel on youtube! What? You don&#8217;t know him? For shame!)</p>
<p>If my current busy lifestyle lightens up and I can get back into some active group I will probably go for the NYC Skeptics.</p>
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		<title>By: vjack</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240882</link>
		<dc:creator>vjack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240882</guid>
		<description>As someone who is not yet convinced that there is in fact an atheist subculture, I will say that I&#039;ve experienced some of what you describe. Some atheists have had so little experience verbally expressing their views that they tend to come across rather unpolished. If we ever get to the point where atheists are not demonized for their views, this will change. What I see in many cases is something like a catharsis for the atheist - it is so great to finally be able to express oneself that one&#039;s judgment is left on the sidelines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who is not yet convinced that there is in fact an atheist subculture, I will say that I&#8217;ve experienced some of what you describe. Some atheists have had so little experience verbally expressing their views that they tend to come across rather unpolished. If we ever get to the point where atheists are not demonized for their views, this will change. What I see in many cases is something like a catharsis for the atheist &#8211; it is so great to finally be able to express oneself that one&#8217;s judgment is left on the sidelines.</p>
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		<title>By: J. J. Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240879</link>
		<dc:creator>J. J. Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240879</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think abnoxious people should be challenged about their abnoxiousness&lt;/blockquote&gt;
And I think that peepul who can&#039;t spel &quot;obnoxious&quot; should be mercilessly mocked for their lack of prufreading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think abnoxious people should be challenged about their abnoxiousness</p></blockquote>
<p>And I think that peepul who can&#8217;t spel &#8220;obnoxious&#8221; should be mercilessly mocked for their lack of prufreading.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Stone</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240767</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Stone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240767</guid>
		<description>This is where standard Atheist criticisms of &#039;theists&#039; fall flat amongst many of us. When it becomes evident that there are ratbags in every community, irrespective of religious or irreligious inclination, &#039;religion breeds abnoxiousness&#039; arguments are exposed for what they are, self-evidently flawed. I think abnoxious people should be challenged about their abnoxiousness, but religion is not the root cause, pride is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is where standard Atheist criticisms of &#8216;theists&#8217; fall flat amongst many of us. When it becomes evident that there are ratbags in every community, irrespective of religious or irreligious inclination, &#8216;religion breeds abnoxiousness&#8217; arguments are exposed for what they are, self-evidently flawed. I think abnoxious people should be challenged about their abnoxiousness, but religion is not the root cause, pride is.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240740</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240740</guid>
		<description>I prefer humanist gatherings since at least we&#039;re focused on DOING something rather than just criticizing religion. I also have a weekly lunch with a group of atheists and it is generally cringe-worthy when the topic turns to religion. 

What bothers me most is the lack of understanding for religious belief. It&#039;s true many religious people simply block out any evidence...but many more have simply never been exposed to rational thinking. Even for many of us who became atheists, it took time, a lot of research and reflection to reach the conclusions that we did.

Moreover, it seems that one ought to have a modicum of compassion for people who are unable to face the fact of a universe without a personal friend who cares about you and allows you eternal life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer humanist gatherings since at least we&#8217;re focused on DOING something rather than just criticizing religion. I also have a weekly lunch with a group of atheists and it is generally cringe-worthy when the topic turns to religion. </p>
<p>What bothers me most is the lack of understanding for religious belief. It&#8217;s true many religious people simply block out any evidence&#8230;but many more have simply never been exposed to rational thinking. Even for many of us who became atheists, it took time, a lot of research and reflection to reach the conclusions that we did.</p>
<p>Moreover, it seems that one ought to have a modicum of compassion for people who are unable to face the fact of a universe without a personal friend who cares about you and allows you eternal life.</p>
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		<title>By: Axegrrl</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240625</link>
		<dc:creator>Axegrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240625</guid>
		<description>Ingersoll&#039;s Revenge said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think that we can consider him the Sarah Palin of the atheist world.

Well, more like Palin with the worst parts of Teddy Kennedy mixed in. And yes, I know that’s a cheap shot.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s not necessarily a &#039;cheap shot&#039;, it&#039;s just &lt;em&gt;utterly &lt;strong&gt;ridiculous&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;.

Hitchens has traits that make me roll my eyes and grit my teeth, but for you to say the above, I have to assume that you haven&#039;t witnessed EITHER of them during debates :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ingersoll&#8217;s Revenge said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I think that we can consider him the Sarah Palin of the atheist world.</p>
<p>Well, more like Palin with the worst parts of Teddy Kennedy mixed in. And yes, I know that’s a cheap shot.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s not necessarily a &#8216;cheap shot&#8217;, it&#8217;s just <em>utterly <strong>ridiculous</strong></em>.</p>
<p>Hitchens has traits that make me roll my eyes and grit my teeth, but for you to say the above, I have to assume that you haven&#8217;t witnessed EITHER of them during debates <img src='http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Axegrrl</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240624</link>
		<dc:creator>Axegrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240624</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The ‘Brights’ thing really irked me too when I first heard about it. There are some religious folks I know who could absolutely clobber me in an argument because they know way more than I do.

I don’t like anything that suggests that being an atheists means being a part of some elite group. I’m just a person who doesn’t believe in god(s). That doesn’t make me a special snowflake who knows more than everyone else.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


&lt;em&gt;Great&lt;/em&gt; post Catherine :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The ‘Brights’ thing really irked me too when I first heard about it. There are some religious folks I know who could absolutely clobber me in an argument because they know way more than I do.</p>
<p>I don’t like anything that suggests that being an atheists means being a part of some elite group. I’m just a person who doesn’t believe in god(s). That doesn’t make me a special snowflake who knows more than everyone else.</p></blockquote>
<p><em>Great</em> post Catherine <img src='http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Axegrrl</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240622</link>
		<dc:creator>Axegrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240622</guid>
		<description>The &#039;appearance&#039; that atheists are mainly about &quot;making fun&quot; of religious people.

I have a very dear friend who teaches in the religion dept. at a local university (she&#039;s a pantheist and as much of a &#039;heathenist&#039; as most of us are:), and when the subject of the &#039;flying spaghetti monster&#039; came up, she used the phrase &#039;making fun of people&#039; in her description of it to someone who wasn&#039;t familiar.  On another occasion, when the subject of Bill Maher&#039;s &quot;Religulous&quot; came up, a colleague of hers also used the phrase &quot;making fun of&quot; to describe the &#039;point&#039; of the documentary........

What bothers me about this is that instead of seeing the main POINT being made by &#039;Religulous&#039; and the FSM, they only saw the &#039;mocking&#039; aspect.  That could be due to &lt;em&gt;their&lt;/em&gt; perspective/biases, but it troubles me that so many intelligent people come away with the same impression of atheists.

We really need to focus on trying to make our &#039;points&#039; (ie questioning the automatic &#039;deferrence&#039; given to religions etc) without being condescending or insulting. I know how hard it is sometimes (especially when faced with creationists who are not above lying), but the payoff is worth it.....

When your words/actions demonstrate an &lt;em&gt;integrity&lt;/em&gt; that is true to the ideas you espouse, you don&#039;t give your opponents the opportunity to &lt;em&gt;waste time &lt;/em&gt;by focussing on how &#039;insulting&#039; you&#039;ve been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;appearance&#8217; that atheists are mainly about &#8220;making fun&#8221; of religious people.</p>
<p>I have a very dear friend who teaches in the religion dept. at a local university (she&#8217;s a pantheist and as much of a &#8216;heathenist&#8217; as most of us are:), and when the subject of the &#8216;flying spaghetti monster&#8217; came up, she used the phrase &#8216;making fun of people&#8217; in her description of it to someone who wasn&#8217;t familiar.  On another occasion, when the subject of Bill Maher&#8217;s &#8220;Religulous&#8221; came up, a colleague of hers also used the phrase &#8220;making fun of&#8221; to describe the &#8216;point&#8217; of the documentary&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>What bothers me about this is that instead of seeing the main POINT being made by &#8216;Religulous&#8217; and the FSM, they only saw the &#8216;mocking&#8217; aspect.  That could be due to <em>their</em> perspective/biases, but it troubles me that so many intelligent people come away with the same impression of atheists.</p>
<p>We really need to focus on trying to make our &#8216;points&#8217; (ie questioning the automatic &#8216;deferrence&#8217; given to religions etc) without being condescending or insulting. I know how hard it is sometimes (especially when faced with creationists who are not above lying), but the payoff is worth it&#8230;..</p>
<p>When your words/actions demonstrate an <em>integrity</em> that is true to the ideas you espouse, you don&#8217;t give your opponents the opportunity to <em>waste time </em>by focussing on how &#8216;insulting&#8217; you&#8217;ve been.</p>
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		<title>By: llewelly</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-2/#comment-240593</link>
		<dc:creator>llewelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 03:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240593</guid>
		<description>writerdd, you need some &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pointofinquiry.org/paul_kurtz_the_transnational_center_for_inquiry/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Paul Kurtz&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>writerdd, you need some <a href="http://www.pointofinquiry.org/paul_kurtz_the_transnational_center_for_inquiry/" rel="nofollow">Paul Kurtz</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Grimalkin</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/10/22/what-bothers-you-about-the-atheist-subculture/comment-page-1/#comment-240574</link>
		<dc:creator>Grimalkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 01:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=5254#comment-240574</guid>
		<description>Cathy said: &quot;I have heard atheist men whine about how there are not enough female atheists and then assert extremely sexist ideas and demean women.&quot;

That is definitely my big issue with most atheists I mean. They all seem to be &lt;em&gt;Nice Guys&lt;/em&gt; (TM).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cathy said: &#8220;I have heard atheist men whine about how there are not enough female atheists and then assert extremely sexist ideas and demean women.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is definitely my big issue with most atheists I mean. They all seem to be <em>Nice Guys</em> (TM).</p>
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