I don’t understand why an atheist student couldn’t enter a Christian college and put up a stink about learning creationism instead of evolution.

I think a lot of them (the ones that teach creationism) make you sign a statement of faith, or some such thing. It could be regarded as a breach of contract.

What if someone were to approach the head of a math dept. and say, “All right, while I’m here, I’ll use your accursed base-10 math, but I want you to know that as soon as I’m out of here with a sheepskin in hand, I’m going to start teaching that anything other than base-2 is the work of the devil!”? Would giving such a person a math degree be in keeping with the spirit of a liberal arts education?

As a holder of a BS in computer science and a successful software developer, I can assure you that anything other than base-2 is, indeed, the work of the devil.

In all seriousness, I don’t have a problem with people having beliefs that conflict with their area of study. It is not a school’s function to tell you what to believe. That’s exactly the argument we’re having with these people. They want their system of belief taught in schools as fact. We’ve been arguing that the teaching of belief belongs outside of public schools. You can’t then turn around and tell them that if they want to go to those schools, they have to abandon their beliefs. At least, not without sounding hypocritical.

The key to winning this fight is pointing out that the material the ID/creation proponents want to teach is not science, and therefore it does not belong in a science classroom. Don’t get hung up on character debates about who does and does not support it.

Regarding the value of the degree – I’m concerned that it is just this sort of thing that will devalue it. If a young earth creationist can get a diploma at an Ivy League or other top-tier university – what does that do to the value of all future diplomas awarded by that institution?

Furthermore, the act of hiring someone who has such credentials validates the hiring university indirectly. You enable Jerry Falwell to say, “See? We are a legitimate institution; we have people with science degrees from secular universities teaching here.” It validates the creationist organizations as well; they can point to these people and say, “These are real scientists, with real science degrees, who uphold our beliefs.”

I have to think that this is a very bad idea.

They shouldn’t be awarded degrees in science at legitimate universities. They have their Bible colleges; let them go to those. If they receive degrees in science from reputable universities and, at a later date, begin promoting creationism or ID – those degrees should be revoked.

I sympathize with your frustration, cipher (enormously!), but I cannot agree with this as a remedy. These people do the work that the university specifies as necessary to earn that degree, so they EARN that degree. That they are insane enough to deny the factuality of what they’ve parrotted to get it is wildly disturbing, but they have done the required work, so they have earned the degree nonetheless.

As soon as we start requiring standards of belief — on anything — to be part of the criteria for getting a degree at a secular institution, its value will immediately become just as suspect as any degree from such Christian luminaries as Liberty University, Pensacola Christian College, and Bob Jones University. Ideology must be kept out of such considerations, or some future fashionable version of “truth” may very well make us regret incorporating it.

~David D.G.

Any study of science involves reviewing data that has accumulated over time and from which testable hypotheses are derived. From this process scientific theories emerge. It is recognized that there are other points of view and these will be treated with respect. The study of these views, however, shall be done in forums outside the school.

So that’s a relief. I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on this sort of thing as my son gets older, though.

Todd Palin is a former member. He hasn’t been a member since 2002.

That’s a damn shame. I get little enough pleasure out of life.

Also, I can’t find any definitive information showing that Sarah Palin is a Young Earth Creationist. There are indications/quotes showing that she holds some ID views, but nothing specifically regarding YEC.

Did I miss something?