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	<title>Comments on: Atheism and Astrology?</title>
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	<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/</link>
	<description>Atheism with Positivity</description>
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		<title>By: David D.G.</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-216168</link>
		<dc:creator>David D.G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-216168</guid>
		<description>Darryl, I think you are conflating religion with &lt;em&gt;superstition&lt;/em&gt;; the first is a subset of the second, much larger category.  I understand the parallel you&#039;re trying to draw here, but would you also claim that Tarot usage/belief constitutes a religion?  Or numerology?  Or dowsing?  Or the use of a Magic 8-Ball?  Or the various odd practices pertaining to the acting profession (never whistling backstage, avoiding referring to Shakespeare&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Macbeth&lt;/em&gt; by name, wishing someone a good performance by saying &quot;break a leg,&quot; etc.)?  These are all beliefs/practices of a superstitious nature, but they can&#039;t all be religions.

For something to qualify as a &quot;religion,&quot; there have to be certain features to it that astrology lacks, such as faith in the supernatural.  Many (perhaps most) astrology buffs stridently claim that there&#039;s nothing &quot;supernatural&quot; about it -- that they are making use of &lt;em&gt;natural&lt;/em&gt; phenomena.  (Nonsense, of course, but that&#039;s how they see it.)  Many of them truly think of it as a science!  That&#039;s pretty much against the grain for anything called a &quot;religion.&quot;

Another feature that is (arguably) universally present in a religion is a god figure, or multiple god figures.  (One or two &quot;religions&quot; do not have this characteristic, which prompts some people to argue that they aren&#039;t even really religions, but are philosophies instead.  Frankly, I agree.)  Even those astrology buffs who do regard it as dealing with the supernatural don&#039;t seem to regard the planets and stars as gods.  They sometimes see them as &lt;em&gt;tools&lt;/em&gt; of God (or of Nature personified, or some such newage religious belief), but that no more makes astrology itself a religion than it makes meteorology a religion for those people who think God uses storms to express his wrath; in the latter case, the weather is a tool of their religious figure, not the focus of religion itself -- and so it is with the stars and planets to astrology believers.

Thus, astrology is superstition, but it is not religion.


~David D.G.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darryl, I think you are conflating religion with <em>superstition</em>; the first is a subset of the second, much larger category.  I understand the parallel you&#8217;re trying to draw here, but would you also claim that Tarot usage/belief constitutes a religion?  Or numerology?  Or dowsing?  Or the use of a Magic 8-Ball?  Or the various odd practices pertaining to the acting profession (never whistling backstage, avoiding referring to Shakespeare&#8217;s <em>Macbeth</em> by name, wishing someone a good performance by saying &#8220;break a leg,&#8221; etc.)?  These are all beliefs/practices of a superstitious nature, but they can&#8217;t all be religions.</p>
<p>For something to qualify as a &#8220;religion,&#8221; there have to be certain features to it that astrology lacks, such as faith in the supernatural.  Many (perhaps most) astrology buffs stridently claim that there&#8217;s nothing &#8220;supernatural&#8221; about it &#8212; that they are making use of <em>natural</em> phenomena.  (Nonsense, of course, but that&#8217;s how they see it.)  Many of them truly think of it as a science!  That&#8217;s pretty much against the grain for anything called a &#8220;religion.&#8221;</p>
<p>Another feature that is (arguably) universally present in a religion is a god figure, or multiple god figures.  (One or two &#8220;religions&#8221; do not have this characteristic, which prompts some people to argue that they aren&#8217;t even really religions, but are philosophies instead.  Frankly, I agree.)  Even those astrology buffs who do regard it as dealing with the supernatural don&#8217;t seem to regard the planets and stars as gods.  They sometimes see them as <em>tools</em> of God (or of Nature personified, or some such newage religious belief), but that no more makes astrology itself a religion than it makes meteorology a religion for those people who think God uses storms to express his wrath; in the latter case, the weather is a tool of their religious figure, not the focus of religion itself &#8212; and so it is with the stars and planets to astrology believers.</p>
<p>Thus, astrology is superstition, but it is not religion.</p>
<p>~David D.G.</p>
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		<title>By: fabrulana</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215923</link>
		<dc:creator>fabrulana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 07:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215923</guid>
		<description>In my country I find the books also in the strangest places. Mostly in one major bookstore it is underneath : Mind, Body, Spirit (which is not associated to religion).  But the other day I saw a few in a bookstore under Religion. It was pretty amusing seeing as we have a strong Christian community. There was the book &#039;God is not Great&#039; next to the other Christian books...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my country I find the books also in the strangest places. Mostly in one major bookstore it is underneath : Mind, Body, Spirit (which is not associated to religion).  But the other day I saw a few in a bookstore under Religion. It was pretty amusing seeing as we have a strong Christian community. There was the book &#8216;God is not Great&#8217; next to the other Christian books&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Elles</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215856</link>
		<dc:creator>Elles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 05:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215856</guid>
		<description>As a skeptic, I am skeptical of this photo...

But Hemant said it so you &lt;em&gt;know&lt;/em&gt; that it&#039;s true. I mean, the friendly atheist wouldn&#039;t deceive us... would he?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a skeptic, I am skeptical of this photo&#8230;</p>
<p>But Hemant said it so you <em>know</em> that it&#8217;s true. I mean, the friendly atheist wouldn&#8217;t deceive us&#8230; would he?</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Skinner</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215758</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215758</guid>
		<description>Because they are written by British people (the atheism books) and you have a new age book with a &quot;Drudic James Bond&quot;. I kid you not- a book actually had that blurb in B&amp;N- it was in the scifi fantasy section though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because they are written by British people (the atheism books) and you have a new age book with a &#8220;Drudic James Bond&#8221;. I kid you not- a book actually had that blurb in B&amp;N- it was in the scifi fantasy section though.</p>
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		<title>By: Epistaxis</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215755</link>
		<dc:creator>Epistaxis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215755</guid>
		<description>So that people who are going for a book of horoscopes might just pick up Richard Dawkins by mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So that people who are going for a book of horoscopes might just pick up Richard Dawkins by mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215745</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215745</guid>
		<description>At the B&amp;N where I work, we just recently had a categorization update where the atheism books around our store, found mostly in Philosophy&#039;s general section or in Christianity (under Religion/Inspiration), were put in their own subcategory under philosophy, called Agnosticism/Atheism. In our store, the &quot;flow&quot; goes Philosophy ---&gt; New Age (which includes Astrology, Tarot, Wicca, and UFOs) --&gt; Religion/Inspiration (which does give very little space to Judaism/Holocaust, as per our sales, but we do have a large Buddhism/Hinduism section).

Oddly, Hemant, your book is STILL categorized under &quot;Christianity&quot;. I&#039;ve submitted a title correction, and Home Office simply says &quot;The subject/display for this title will not change&quot;.

Also, B&amp;N seems a little inconsistent in terms of what they put in Ag/Ath (which I&#039;ll accept for now, since it is a new category). &quot;God Delusion&quot; is under Evolutions subsection in Science/Tech, because it is shelved with all of Dawkins&#039; other titles. However, Hitch&#039;s &quot;God is Not Great&quot;, which has more of an anecdotal &quot;current events&quot; format is in Ag/Ath, not our Current Affairs section (which has Harris&#039; &quot;End of Faith&quot; and &quot;Letter to a Christian Nation&quot;. Eventually they&#039;ll figure it out, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the B&amp;N where I work, we just recently had a categorization update where the atheism books around our store, found mostly in Philosophy&#8217;s general section or in Christianity (under Religion/Inspiration), were put in their own subcategory under philosophy, called Agnosticism/Atheism. In our store, the &#8220;flow&#8221; goes Philosophy &#8212;&gt; New Age (which includes Astrology, Tarot, Wicca, and UFOs) &#8211;&gt; Religion/Inspiration (which does give very little space to Judaism/Holocaust, as per our sales, but we do have a large Buddhism/Hinduism section).</p>
<p>Oddly, Hemant, your book is STILL categorized under &#8220;Christianity&#8221;. I&#8217;ve submitted a title correction, and Home Office simply says &#8220;The subject/display for this title will not change&#8221;.</p>
<p>Also, B&amp;N seems a little inconsistent in terms of what they put in Ag/Ath (which I&#8217;ll accept for now, since it is a new category). &#8220;God Delusion&#8221; is under Evolutions subsection in Science/Tech, because it is shelved with all of Dawkins&#8217; other titles. However, Hitch&#8217;s &#8220;God is Not Great&#8221;, which has more of an anecdotal &#8220;current events&#8221; format is in Ag/Ath, not our Current Affairs section (which has Harris&#8217; &#8220;End of Faith&#8221; and &#8220;Letter to a Christian Nation&#8221;. Eventually they&#8217;ll figure it out, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: ash</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215741</link>
		<dc:creator>ash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215741</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Would anyone like to offer up a guess as to why Atheism and Astrology are in the same section in this bookstore?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

because they use the same classification methods as Birmingham city council&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/city_workers_in_birmingham_are.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blocking software?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Would anyone like to offer up a guess as to why Atheism and Astrology are in the same section in this bookstore?</p></blockquote>
<p>because they use the same classification methods as Birmingham city council&#8217;s <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/city_workers_in_birmingham_are.php" rel="nofollow">blocking software?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Radovan Karadzic</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215654</link>
		<dc:creator>Radovan Karadzic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215654</guid>
		<description>&quot;.. for the same reason the Christian Bibles are in the FICTION section of my local bookstore?&quot; ...  he asked mischievously</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;.. for the same reason the Christian Bibles are in the FICTION section of my local bookstore?&#8221; &#8230;  he asked mischievously</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215650</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215650</guid>
		<description>David, astrology is as much of a religious viewpoint as anything else.  If they had to spell out what they believe, wouldn&#039;t believers in astrology have to say that they believe that messages and predictions of what life and people are like are being put into the patterns of stars in the galaxy?  Don&#039;t forget, they think the stars give specific information for specific people.  Kind of spooky if you think about it.  It has to involve the supernatural doesn&#039;t it?  They look to something beyond themselves that they trust to help them without knowing just how it all works though they have a whole system developed.  Sounds like a religion to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, astrology is as much of a religious viewpoint as anything else.  If they had to spell out what they believe, wouldn&#8217;t believers in astrology have to say that they believe that messages and predictions of what life and people are like are being put into the patterns of stars in the galaxy?  Don&#8217;t forget, they think the stars give specific information for specific people.  Kind of spooky if you think about it.  It has to involve the supernatural doesn&#8217;t it?  They look to something beyond themselves that they trust to help them without knowing just how it all works though they have a whole system developed.  Sounds like a religion to me.</p>
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		<title>By: David D.G.</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/comment-page-1/#comment-215615</link>
		<dc:creator>David D.G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/08/04/atheism-and-astrology/#comment-215615</guid>
		<description>Wes wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;So my guess is that they included Atheism along with all the other minority religious viewpoints, such as paganism, astrology, wicca, meditation, etc.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wes, how the heck is astrology a religious viewpoint, minority or otherwise?


~David D.G.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wes wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>So my guess is that they included Atheism along with all the other minority religious viewpoints, such as paganism, astrology, wicca, meditation, etc.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wes, how the heck is astrology a religious viewpoint, minority or otherwise?</p>
<p>~David D.G.</p>
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