I can understand the christian argument that Jesus’ coming changed the rules, but this surely just raises a much larger issue, one that if christians addressed in a proper logical fashion would surely cast huge doubts on their faith: If Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all one and Jesus’ coming changed the rules, then it meant that God changed his mind. Why would he change his mind unless this supposedly perfect being realised he got it wrong!!

The explanation that I was given was that God wanted to have a relationship with humans, but he cannot stand sin. Hates it. (Let’s leave aside the question as to why an infinite, perfect being would want, need or hate anything at all.) So he created the world, and gave Israelites the Law. But people kept sinning, so the J Man had to come and be crucified as a sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world.

But I think this raises a few questions. God wants to have a relationship with people, and he hates sin. Yet he designed people in such a manner that knowing God is difficult, yet sinning is easy. (Plus a lot of people who claim to know God disagree with each other.Shouldn’t an infinite, perfect being be able to explain himself to us in a way we understand unambiguously?)

So God made people such that it is hard for humans to do the thing that God wants, and easy to do the thing that God does not want. Is that intelligent design?

Gentiles weren’t expected to observe them because they’re unloved and unwanted and observing dietary rules won’t help.

I’m not defending the OT, but that wasn’t the reason. I don’t know what you mean by “help” – the ancient Israelites weren’t thinking in salvific terms in the way that Christians use the term.

AFAIK, Jesus didn’t abrogate Levitical Laws, Paul did. If Christians want to go on about how rules don’t apply to them, they should once and for ever more shut up about the Ten Commandments.

What I meant is that Christians believe that Jesus’ coming abrogated those laws. But I agree about their ambiguous attitude toward the OT.

The author of Leviticus wasn’t addressing Christians because, shocker, there weren’t any Christians. And since Christians think the OT is a part of their bible describing their God, then yes, the rules given out by their God apply to them.

AFAIK, Jesus didn’t abrogate Levitical Laws, Paul did. If Christians want to go on about how rules don’t apply to them, they should once and for ever more shut up about the Ten Commandments. Since they clearly do not cut these ties to the OT, we’re back to the original problem: Leviticus is in, or everything is out. God isn’t dealing out cafeteria rules.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, if a Christian wants to argue that the church is the “New Israel” – that’s another matter, but it’s moot anyway, because they believe that Jesus abrogated the Levitical laws. In any case, that’s bringing the NT into it. The author of Leviticus was addressing Jews solely.

Again – bear in mind that these rules were meant only for Jews.

They were meant for people that God cares about. These were only the Jews, but now that also includes Christians.

I’ve always adored Leviticus for proving that fundie insanity is not a new crisis. There’s just so much fodder there since it’s the original Chick tract.

As fucked up as the Old Testament is, I’d say you don’t really get into Jack Chick territory until the New Testament. In the OT, if you did something God didn’t like, he’d kill you. If you really screwed up, he’d leave you alive but kill your family. In the NT, if he decides he doesn’t like you (for committing a heinous crime like not using the correct name when you kiss his ass worship him), he bides his time until you die, then he goes postal worker on you.

Lazarus and the rich man, the book of Revelation – that’s Jack Chick.

Plus, I love starting up literal interpretation debates with Christian friends over seafood dinners…

Again – bear in mind that these rules were meant only for Jews.

stephanie said
…Plus, I love starting up literal interpretation debates with Christian friends over seafood dinners…

see godhatesshrimp.com