If Christians want to apologize, I suggest they take their Commandments off of courthouses, turn about and start working to include homosexuals in their Defence of Marriage amendments, and start fighting for full and frank sex ed in schools.

Just thought I should point out that many are in fact doing these things.

However, I’m going to be a bit more pragmatic here. Are some of the motivations of these Christians murky? Maybe. Do some still hold beliefs or do things that make their apolgies obsolete? Sure. Are some apologizing so that they can come off as “nice” Christians? Probably.

However, this is a good first step. It takes a lot to admit that you (or your “people”) did something wrong or unjust. And it goes a long way towards coexisting with us skeptical heathens.

I liked this idea when I first read it in Donald Miller’s book and I still like it now. We could all use some self-examination and this is a good first step. We atheists could probably have our own confessional!

I apologize for all of us that take secret delight in making fun of the behavior of religious people for acting in ways that seem strange to us, espcially when what they do has no effect on us. (For the strange actions of believers that do have an effect on me as an atheist, I do NOT apologize).

Is there no place for communal responsibility? Is it inappropriate for white Americans to apologize for slavery? For Germans to apologize for the Holocaust? For the Pope to apologize on behalf of Catholics for the Crusades?

Not inappropriate. Just bittersweet, like I said. It evokes complex emotions.

Is there no place for communal responsibility? Is it inappropriate for white Americans to apologize for slavery? For Germans to apologize for the Holocaust? For the Pope to apologize on behalf of Catholics for the Crusades?

i think these apologies were appropiate because they are for past behaviour that has already been discontinued; for a Christian to apologise for women and homosexuals being treated as less than equal by Christianity when these practises are still rampant in some quarters is absolutely hollow – akin to a KKK member apologising for being racist yet still hanging on to their membership card. or it could be viewed as as innappropiate as a woman apologising for her male ancestors misogyny. I appreciate the sentiment expressed by individuals on their own behalf, but TBH your approach of ‘i disagreed with my former churches brand of Christianity so i left that behind’ speaks far more to me than mere words ever will.

The problem is that some of them can’t change anything, because they’re apologizing on other people’s behalf. There is something bittersweet about an apology that says, “Sorry about all those other people; most of us are better than that.”

Is there no place for communal responsibility? Is it inappropriate for white Americans to apologize for slavery? For Germans to apologize for the Holocaust? For the Pope to apologize on behalf of Catholics for the Crusades? Just because you’re not personally responsible for some of these crimes, isn’t there a place for saying, “I’m sorry that my people, the group I identify with, has hurt and oppressed you in the past. I’m sorry for the ways I’ve been complicit with this or have benefited from the fruits of this injustice”?

Besides which, I’m not sure why folks are assuming that the apologies on that site are not self-referential. Just because folks now realize those attitudes are wrong doesn’t mean they didn’t used to practice them (my own list of things I regret about how I’ve acted as a Christian in the past is pretty long). As I read through the apologies, most seem pretty personal. I didn’t get the sense that most of them were intending to apologize for someone else.

Also, those that have criticized them for merely apologizing but not doing more to change, was this acknowledgment and invitation for suggestions not sufficient to convince you that the creators of the site also wish to offer more than mere words?

The problem isn’t so much that they aren’t doing anything to change (how would I even know that they’re doing nothing to change?). The problem is that some of them can’t change anything, because they’re apologizing on other people’s behalf. There is something bittersweet about an apology that says, “Sorry about all those other people; most of us are better than that.”

But atheism is a broad-minded community, and we’re prepared to accept that all religion is equally silly. So yes, the Jews, Muslims, Hindus et al are equally deluded. And generally that’s okay.

“We all live in a little delusion, let’s not get intolerant about it.”

Um … Well no, some of us have struggled free of the great delusion. Have you heard the good news about Nothing?

Nothing controls your day to day life. Nothing is waiting for you after you die, and Nothing will prevent you from sinning if you want to sin.

As for intolerance, religion has a clear and vibrant history of intolerance spanning centuries. Millenia, even. At the extremes, it’s people killing one another not because they are not free to believe as they will, not because they are or are not tolerated, but because the other people serve the bad, incorrect, negatively-regarded gods.

At its means, it’s people working to twist education and law to favour their own superstition, and that should not be tolerated at all.

If Christians want to apologize, I suggest they take their Commandments off of courthouses, turn about and start working to include homosexuals in their Defence of Marriage amendments, and start fighting for full and frank sex ed in schools.

As it is, this looks like feel-good wankery.

You, Pastor Mike Clawson, are guilty of making very similar statements on this very blog.

If that is so, then I apologize.

“I’m sorry you’ve been offended, but I’m only being obnoxious and rude for your own benefit, because you clearly need my help.”

You, Pastor Mike Clawson, are guilty of making very similar statements on this very blog.