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	<title>Comments on: Advice for New Atheists</title>
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	<description>Atheism with Positivity</description>
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		<title>By: Do you describe yourself as an atheist? &#171; Unreasonable Faith</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-198222</link>
		<dc:creator>Do you describe yourself as an atheist? &#171; Unreasonable Faith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-198222</guid>
		<description>[...] 8, 2008 by Daniel Florien    I liked this comment from Jonathan at Friendly [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 8, 2008 by Daniel Florien    I liked this comment from Jonathan at Friendly [...]</p>
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		<title>By: miller</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-196592</link>
		<dc:creator>miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 19:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-196592</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Do you have a satisfying answer to the question, “How can people believe this stuff?” I do not.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I refer you to &lt;em&gt;Why People Believe Weird Things&lt;/em&gt; by Michael Shermer.

Generally speaking, weird beliefs are not the result of delusions or conspiracies, but the result of normal thinking gone wrong.  This is why they can occur in anyone, even intelligent people.

There are several levels of reasons/causes for religious beliefs.  On one level, there are social forces: family pressure, peer pressure, tradition.  On another level, there is apathy and ignorance, though these are not necessary.  On the level of reasoning, there are apologetics (also, reasons to think apologetics are unnecessary).  And then there are cognitive biases, primarily confirmation bias, but also including things like logical fallacies and misunderstandings of epistemology.

All these things, we can learn to recognize in ourselves.  Or, if that&#039;s too hard, we can recognize it in people who are similar to us.  Perhaps we think these reasons are justified in our own case.  Either way, we can get a small taste of how people can believe such vastly different things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Do you have a satisfying answer to the question, “How can people believe this stuff?” I do not.</p></blockquote>
<p>I refer you to <em>Why People Believe Weird Things</em> by Michael Shermer.</p>
<p>Generally speaking, weird beliefs are not the result of delusions or conspiracies, but the result of normal thinking gone wrong.  This is why they can occur in anyone, even intelligent people.</p>
<p>There are several levels of reasons/causes for religious beliefs.  On one level, there are social forces: family pressure, peer pressure, tradition.  On another level, there is apathy and ignorance, though these are not necessary.  On the level of reasoning, there are apologetics (also, reasons to think apologetics are unnecessary).  And then there are cognitive biases, primarily confirmation bias, but also including things like logical fallacies and misunderstandings of epistemology.</p>
<p>All these things, we can learn to recognize in ourselves.  Or, if that&#8217;s too hard, we can recognize it in people who are similar to us.  Perhaps we think these reasons are justified in our own case.  Either way, we can get a small taste of how people can believe such vastly different things.</p>
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		<title>By: hoverFrog</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-195213</link>
		<dc:creator>hoverFrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-195213</guid>
		<description>“How can people believe this stuff?” because it makes sense to them and gives them a purpose that they would otherwise be without...because they were brought up believing it and cannot abandon a life time of conditioning...because they want to belong and everyone else believes it...because religion is an easy philosophy to accept and broad enough to appeal to many different people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“How can people believe this stuff?” because it makes sense to them and gives them a purpose that they would otherwise be without&#8230;because they were brought up believing it and cannot abandon a life time of conditioning&#8230;because they want to belong and everyone else believes it&#8230;because religion is an easy philosophy to accept and broad enough to appeal to many different people.</p>
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		<title>By: EKM</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-195196</link>
		<dc:creator>EKM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-195196</guid>
		<description>miller said,
&lt;blockquote&gt;Restrain your antagonism towards religion until you find a satisfying answer to the question, “How can people believe this stuff?” The answer might change your opinion of religion and its adherents.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Do you have a satisfying answer to the question, “How can people believe this stuff?” I do not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>miller said,</p>
<blockquote><p>Restrain your antagonism towards religion until you find a satisfying answer to the question, “How can people believe this stuff?” The answer might change your opinion of religion and its adherents.</p></blockquote>
<p>Do you have a satisfying answer to the question, “How can people believe this stuff?” I do not.</p>
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		<title>By: miller</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-195021</link>
		<dc:creator>miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-195021</guid>
		<description>Be skeptical!  Un-skeptical atheists are just unseemly.  Good online resources are the Skeptic&#039;s Society, the Skeptic&#039;s Dictionary, and the skeptical blogosphere (try starting with Bad Astronomy).  For books, I recommend authors Michael Shermer and Carl Sagan.

Restrain your antagonism towards religion until you find a satisfying answer to the question, &quot;How can people believe this stuff?&quot;  The answer might change your opinion of religion and its adherents.

Don&#039;t be afraid to be honest about your atheism.  I realize atheists have a bit of a stereotype (several, in fact), but these stereotypes will eventually be broken as more and more atheists, especially the quiet ones, come out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be skeptical!  Un-skeptical atheists are just unseemly.  Good online resources are the Skeptic&#8217;s Society, the Skeptic&#8217;s Dictionary, and the skeptical blogosphere (try starting with Bad Astronomy).  For books, I recommend authors Michael Shermer and Carl Sagan.</p>
<p>Restrain your antagonism towards religion until you find a satisfying answer to the question, &#8220;How can people believe this stuff?&#8221;  The answer might change your opinion of religion and its adherents.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be afraid to be honest about your atheism.  I realize atheists have a bit of a stereotype (several, in fact), but these stereotypes will eventually be broken as more and more atheists, especially the quiet ones, come out.</p>
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		<title>By: John Pritzlaff</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-194935</link>
		<dc:creator>John Pritzlaff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 04:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-194935</guid>
		<description>Be an example of a nice, moral atheist.  Be open to conversation.  Realize that religious debates aren&#039;t always pointless.  Try not to be arrogant.  Read lots of books in lots of different fields.  Try to read opposing viewpoints as much as you can.  Don&#039;t be rebellious just for the sake of it.  Show people that atheists can be calm, happy, pleasant, and engaging.  Find a balance between expressing your point of view and just hanging out.  Try to express your opinions without alienating your friends.  Don&#039;t turn nonbelief into a dogma.  Don&#039;t turn atheism into your God.  Be open to new evidence, as any rational person should be.  

That&#039;s what I would say to a new atheist.

Then again I&#039;m only 17.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be an example of a nice, moral atheist.  Be open to conversation.  Realize that religious debates aren&#8217;t always pointless.  Try not to be arrogant.  Read lots of books in lots of different fields.  Try to read opposing viewpoints as much as you can.  Don&#8217;t be rebellious just for the sake of it.  Show people that atheists can be calm, happy, pleasant, and engaging.  Find a balance between expressing your point of view and just hanging out.  Try to express your opinions without alienating your friends.  Don&#8217;t turn nonbelief into a dogma.  Don&#8217;t turn atheism into your God.  Be open to new evidence, as any rational person should be.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I would say to a new atheist.</p>
<p>Then again I&#8217;m only 17.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-194901</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 02:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-194901</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What advice would you offer a teenager who has just become an atheist but isn’t sure what to do now that her faith in God is gone?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

1.  Know that you&#039;re not alone.
2.  Be honest without being antagonistic or defensive.
3.  Not all theists know what it is that they actually believe... Chances are, you have thought about this more than they have.
4.  Do not jump on the band wagon of anyone else&#039;s belief or non-belief - always think for yourself.
5.  Continue to keep an open mind...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What advice would you offer a teenager who has just become an atheist but isn’t sure what to do now that her faith in God is gone?</p></blockquote>
<p>1.  Know that you&#8217;re not alone.<br />
2.  Be honest without being antagonistic or defensive.<br />
3.  Not all theists know what it is that they actually believe&#8230; Chances are, you have thought about this more than they have.<br />
4.  Do not jump on the band wagon of anyone else&#8217;s belief or non-belief &#8211; always think for yourself.<br />
5.  Continue to keep an open mind&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: efrique</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-194890</link>
		<dc:creator>efrique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-194890</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Specifically, what would you suggest regarding how to deal with family? Friends? When to tell people she’s not religious? How to meet other atheists? What to read? When to keep her mouth shut? Which groups to join?&lt;/i&gt;

In general, I&#039;d say &quot;To begin with, don&#039;t volunteer information you don&#039;t have to give.&quot; - you can&#039;t &lt;i&gt;untell&lt;/i&gt;, and sometimes the reactions can be disturbing. You can, as you become more confident in your new atheism, tell people as circumstances warrant.

I wouldn&#039;t say lie in the presence of a direct question, but on the other hand something like &quot;I don&#039;t discuss my religion&quot; or &quot;I think that&#039;s a personal question&quot; will often suffice for a start.

With family its a little different. You&#039;re in a better position to judge their likely reaction than me, but I&#039;d lean more toward telling your family if you think it&#039;s important to them what your beliefs are. If you do, start with someone most likely to be receptive. 

On the other hand, I&#039;ve been an atheist for decades, and while I suppose most of my extended family realize I am not a religious person, I don&#039;t think many of them would know I am an atheist. We just don&#039;t discuss religion. I don&#039;t think anyone in my immediate family is still Christian; last I heard, my mother was a buddhist, all I know about my sisters beliefs is that she is into reiki (gah!). I have no idea what my father&#039;s beliefs are, but I&#039;ve never heard him say the words &quot;god&quot;, &quot;jesus&quot;, &quot;heaven&quot; or anything even remotely religious. His second wife is catholic, but she doesn&#039;t discuss religion either. My mothers ex-partner (i.e. my stepdad, though he never let us call him that) was, I think, an atheist, but I couldn&#039;t say for sure. When &lt;i&gt;nobody&lt;/i&gt; in your family discusses their religious belief, it really doesn&#039;t matter if you tell them or not. If they brought it up, I&#039;d tell them. They don&#039;t, so I assume it doesn&#039;t interest them.

With friends it depends on the circumstances. Most of my friends I&#039;ve never had a direct &quot;I&#039;m an atheist&quot; conversation with, but religion almost never comes up with my friends anyway. I couldn&#039;t tell you what most of their beliefs were either. It&#039;s not something I&#039;d keep from a friend if the topic came up, but I&#039;m not going to bring up the topic unless they seem like they want to talk about it. Some of them have probably inferred my beliefs (or lack of them). Even my most religious friends (the ones who are active in their churches) &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t ask&lt;/i&gt;. They just &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt;. If they did, I&#039;d tell them.

&lt;i&gt;What to read?&lt;/i&gt; Books you like the sound of. Blogs that interest you. What else?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Specifically, what would you suggest regarding how to deal with family? Friends? When to tell people she’s not religious? How to meet other atheists? What to read? When to keep her mouth shut? Which groups to join?</i></p>
<p>In general, I&#8217;d say &#8220;To begin with, don&#8217;t volunteer information you don&#8217;t have to give.&#8221; &#8211; you can&#8217;t <i>untell</i>, and sometimes the reactions can be disturbing. You can, as you become more confident in your new atheism, tell people as circumstances warrant.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say lie in the presence of a direct question, but on the other hand something like &#8220;I don&#8217;t discuss my religion&#8221; or &#8220;I think that&#8217;s a personal question&#8221; will often suffice for a start.</p>
<p>With family its a little different. You&#8217;re in a better position to judge their likely reaction than me, but I&#8217;d lean more toward telling your family if you think it&#8217;s important to them what your beliefs are. If you do, start with someone most likely to be receptive. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I&#8217;ve been an atheist for decades, and while I suppose most of my extended family realize I am not a religious person, I don&#8217;t think many of them would know I am an atheist. We just don&#8217;t discuss religion. I don&#8217;t think anyone in my immediate family is still Christian; last I heard, my mother was a buddhist, all I know about my sisters beliefs is that she is into reiki (gah!). I have no idea what my father&#8217;s beliefs are, but I&#8217;ve never heard him say the words &#8220;god&#8221;, &#8220;jesus&#8221;, &#8220;heaven&#8221; or anything even remotely religious. His second wife is catholic, but she doesn&#8217;t discuss religion either. My mothers ex-partner (i.e. my stepdad, though he never let us call him that) was, I think, an atheist, but I couldn&#8217;t say for sure. When <i>nobody</i> in your family discusses their religious belief, it really doesn&#8217;t matter if you tell them or not. If they brought it up, I&#8217;d tell them. They don&#8217;t, so I assume it doesn&#8217;t interest them.</p>
<p>With friends it depends on the circumstances. Most of my friends I&#8217;ve never had a direct &#8220;I&#8217;m an atheist&#8221; conversation with, but religion almost never comes up with my friends anyway. I couldn&#8217;t tell you what most of their beliefs were either. It&#8217;s not something I&#8217;d keep from a friend if the topic came up, but I&#8217;m not going to bring up the topic unless they seem like they want to talk about it. Some of them have probably inferred my beliefs (or lack of them). Even my most religious friends (the ones who are active in their churches) <i>don&#8217;t ask</i>. They just <i>don&#8217;t</i>. If they did, I&#8217;d tell them.</p>
<p><i>What to read?</i> Books you like the sound of. Blogs that interest you. What else?</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Reese</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-194888</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Reese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-194888</guid>
		<description>I dont know where you live, but one group or institution that gave me a good deal of comfort and support when I was a teenager was the Ethical Culture Society. I know their headquarters is here in New York but I believe they have branches in other major cities across the US. You might say it&#039;s a kind of church without God. They have a youth group called NEYO (National Ethical Youth Organization) where I met many intelligent and freethinking young people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont know where you live, but one group or institution that gave me a good deal of comfort and support when I was a teenager was the Ethical Culture Society. I know their headquarters is here in New York but I believe they have branches in other major cities across the US. You might say it&#8217;s a kind of church without God. They have a youth group called NEYO (National Ethical Youth Organization) where I met many intelligent and freethinking young people.</p>
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		<title>By: renascence</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-194844</link>
		<dc:creator>renascence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/02/advice-for-new-atheists/#comment-194844</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been lurking for a while (read: months) and I&#039;m finally in the mood to put my two cents in. Naturally, it looks like my first post will be a long one...

Having been in a situation like that before, the first thing I would do would be to make sure that I can tell &lt;em&gt;somebody&lt;/em&gt; about it - and that confidante doesn&#039;t necessarily have to be one of your parents to begin with. It&#039;s not a lot of fun entertaining your fears of having your loss of faith be uncovered dramatically one day, so the sooner you have someone to work those emotions out with, the better.

Secondly (and when you do this depends on how tolerant your parents are), you&#039;ll eventually have to tell them. Not only is it disingenuous to yourself to go through the motions while not giving a damn, but it&#039;s not being fair to your parents to do things halfheartedly or break a few religious rules behind their backs. Most of the time, they&#039;d rather that you be straight and clear with them. Of course, there&#039;s simply no avoiding the initial disappointment or outrage (unless, of course, they were testing you...?), but a lot of those reactions cool down over time. Patience is the key once you&#039;ve let your parents know about it.

Finally, you might not appreciate having to deal with beliefs that you don&#039;t have faith in, but nothing gets accomplished if you try and aggressively push your own views, either. The best thing to do is to reach a compromise as soon as any initial shock subsides - it&#039;s not worth straining your valuable relationship over such a trivial difference in ideologies. Blood should really come before faith in that instance.

The rest of the stuff - how to meet other atheists, how much of an activist to be, what to read, level of participation - can really wait until they&#039;ve had more time to wrap their head around it, but they should make sure that they do a lot of that thinking independently.

Edit: I meant the &#039;you&#039; to mean the girl / person. Kinda didn&#039;t make that clear the first time</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been lurking for a while (read: months) and I&#8217;m finally in the mood to put my two cents in. Naturally, it looks like my first post will be a long one&#8230;</p>
<p>Having been in a situation like that before, the first thing I would do would be to make sure that I can tell <em>somebody</em> about it &#8211; and that confidante doesn&#8217;t necessarily have to be one of your parents to begin with. It&#8217;s not a lot of fun entertaining your fears of having your loss of faith be uncovered dramatically one day, so the sooner you have someone to work those emotions out with, the better.</p>
<p>Secondly (and when you do this depends on how tolerant your parents are), you&#8217;ll eventually have to tell them. Not only is it disingenuous to yourself to go through the motions while not giving a damn, but it&#8217;s not being fair to your parents to do things halfheartedly or break a few religious rules behind their backs. Most of the time, they&#8217;d rather that you be straight and clear with them. Of course, there&#8217;s simply no avoiding the initial disappointment or outrage (unless, of course, they were testing you&#8230;?), but a lot of those reactions cool down over time. Patience is the key once you&#8217;ve let your parents know about it.</p>
<p>Finally, you might not appreciate having to deal with beliefs that you don&#8217;t have faith in, but nothing gets accomplished if you try and aggressively push your own views, either. The best thing to do is to reach a compromise as soon as any initial shock subsides &#8211; it&#8217;s not worth straining your valuable relationship over such a trivial difference in ideologies. Blood should really come before faith in that instance.</p>
<p>The rest of the stuff &#8211; how to meet other atheists, how much of an activist to be, what to read, level of participation &#8211; can really wait until they&#8217;ve had more time to wrap their head around it, but they should make sure that they do a lot of that thinking independently.</p>
<p>Edit: I meant the &#8216;you&#8217; to mean the girl / person. Kinda didn&#8217;t make that clear the first time</p>
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