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	<title>Comments on: Creationist: Why Am I Always Wrong?</title>
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	<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/</link>
	<description>Atheism with Positivity</description>
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		<title>By: Jennifer M</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-171882</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-171882</guid>
		<description>Oh, Cipher! Lets chill! This forum has been going on way too long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Cipher! Lets chill! This forum has been going on way too long.</p>
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		<title>By: cipher</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-171838</link>
		<dc:creator>cipher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 23:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-171838</guid>
		<description>A biologist who adopts a belief in creationism displays wanton disregard, if not contempt, for the most fundamental principles of science. I&#039;d have no problem in taking away his PhD. I&#039;m sure Liberty U would offer him another one.

I&#039;m in favor of drawing a sharp line of distinction between those who would foster humanity&#039;s progress and those who insist upon clinging to our childhood, and doing it in a particularly vicious manner - very likely destroying us in the process. We&#039;re in deep trouble after a mere three decades of giving them even partial reign. Where would I stop? Where will &lt;em&gt;they &lt;/em&gt;stop?

I was only half serious about everything else I said the other day. &lt;em&gt;This&lt;/em&gt;, I stand by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A biologist who adopts a belief in creationism displays wanton disregard, if not contempt, for the most fundamental principles of science. I&#8217;d have no problem in taking away his PhD. I&#8217;m sure Liberty U would offer him another one.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in favor of drawing a sharp line of distinction between those who would foster humanity&#8217;s progress and those who insist upon clinging to our childhood, and doing it in a particularly vicious manner &#8211; very likely destroying us in the process. We&#8217;re in deep trouble after a mere three decades of giving them even partial reign. Where would I stop? Where will <em>they </em>stop?</p>
<p>I was only half serious about everything else I said the other day. <em>This</em>, I stand by.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-171663</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 19:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-171663</guid>
		<description>Cipher, I agree with your description of the political and social atmosphere of the recent years, but your assertion that PhD&#039;s who advocate creationism should lose their doctorates is exactly the thought police state that the &quot;right wing wackos&quot; would love to have.  You just seem to think that if you were the police chief things would be so much better.  But with that kind of power to dictate what are the right and what are the wrong thoughts and opinions to have, where would you stop?

Sorry, I wouldn&#039;t want to live in your version of America any more than I would want to live in the Dominionists&#039; version.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cipher, I agree with your description of the political and social atmosphere of the recent years, but your assertion that PhD&#8217;s who advocate creationism should lose their doctorates is exactly the thought police state that the &#8220;right wing wackos&#8221; would love to have.  You just seem to think that if you were the police chief things would be so much better.  But with that kind of power to dictate what are the right and what are the wrong thoughts and opinions to have, where would you stop?</p>
<p>Sorry, I wouldn&#8217;t want to live in your version of America any more than I would want to live in the Dominionists&#8217; version.</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-171006</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 19:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-171006</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I am 51 years old. I have been watching things move inexorably in this direction since I was a small child. It was during the Reagan years (which most of you don’t even remember) that everything really began to change dramatically for the worse. It became fashionable to be greedy and stupid. Then, Gingrich came along, flooded the House with young Republicans and bumped it up a few notches (it didn’t take them long to turn on him and force him out - for not being reactionary enough! - yet he still doesn’t get it). Now, we have an imbecile in the White House, whose strings are being manipulated by a man who may very possibly be evil incarnate. The Bible is being taught as science, and we’re billions of dollars in debt from defending ourselves against the “terrorist onslaught”. Not to mention the cost in human suffering. And conservative evangelicals and fundamentalists have made this possible every step of the way. I’m vehemently opposed to empowering them any further.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Brother Cipher, I sympathize, but I would also point out two things:  first, change for the better sometimes takes a while, and second, notice how the Republican brand has been aviled.  We may be seeing a shift in the country that could undo a lot of wrongs and perhaps reverse the trends.  &quot;Keep hope alive!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I am 51 years old. I have been watching things move inexorably in this direction since I was a small child. It was during the Reagan years (which most of you don’t even remember) that everything really began to change dramatically for the worse. It became fashionable to be greedy and stupid. Then, Gingrich came along, flooded the House with young Republicans and bumped it up a few notches (it didn’t take them long to turn on him and force him out &#8211; for not being reactionary enough! &#8211; yet he still doesn’t get it). Now, we have an imbecile in the White House, whose strings are being manipulated by a man who may very possibly be evil incarnate. The Bible is being taught as science, and we’re billions of dollars in debt from defending ourselves against the “terrorist onslaught”. Not to mention the cost in human suffering. And conservative evangelicals and fundamentalists have made this possible every step of the way. I’m vehemently opposed to empowering them any further.</p></blockquote>
<p>Brother Cipher, I sympathize, but I would also point out two things:  first, change for the better sometimes takes a while, and second, notice how the Republican brand has been aviled.  We may be seeing a shift in the country that could undo a lot of wrongs and perhaps reverse the trends.  &#8220;Keep hope alive!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer M</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-171005</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 19:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-171005</guid>
		<description>Karen, 

In order to have a truly authentic film they need to have at least one scientist that doesn&#039;t agree with views of the film-makers.  Otherwise the information would be biased. Notice Albert is complaining about the misrepresentation of his views, not his facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen, </p>
<p>In order to have a truly authentic film they need to have at least one scientist that doesn&#8217;t agree with views of the film-makers.  Otherwise the information would be biased. Notice Albert is complaining about the misrepresentation of his views, not his facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-170913</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 17:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-170913</guid>
		<description>Jennifer M., there are a ton of websites and blog posts that debunk the ridiculous pseudo-science in that movie. I can&#039;t include the links here because my post doesn&#039;t show up if I do, but google &quot;What the Bleep&quot; and &quot;debunking&quot; and you&#039;ll get a ton of information that you should read.

For instance, Salon.com did an interview with David Albert, the Columbia physics prof in the movie. Here&#039;s what he said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I was edited in such a way as to completely suppress my actual views about the matters the movie discusses. I am, indeed, profoundly unsympathetic to attempts at linking quantum mechanics with consciousness. Moreover, I explained all that, at great length, on camera, to the producers of the film ... Had I known that I would have been so radically misrepresented in the movie, I would certainly not have agreed to be filmed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer M., there are a ton of websites and blog posts that debunk the ridiculous pseudo-science in that movie. I can&#8217;t include the links here because my post doesn&#8217;t show up if I do, but google &#8220;What the Bleep&#8221; and &#8220;debunking&#8221; and you&#8217;ll get a ton of information that you should read.</p>
<p>For instance, Salon.com did an interview with David Albert, the Columbia physics prof in the movie. Here&#8217;s what he said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I was edited in such a way as to completely suppress my actual views about the matters the movie discusses. I am, indeed, profoundly unsympathetic to attempts at linking quantum mechanics with consciousness. Moreover, I explained all that, at great length, on camera, to the producers of the film &#8230; Had I known that I would have been so radically misrepresented in the movie, I would certainly not have agreed to be filmed.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jennifer M</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-170842</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 15:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-170842</guid>
		<description>I like tea: Well, it would be for me.

Jen: I&#039;m very sorry to hear about that.  I brought up the medium topic because my weblink contained one. Then it was discredited.  I&#039;m only advocating that people do their research before tossing mine out as quantum pseudoscience.  Your aunt&#039;s medium experience does sound like a shame.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like tea: Well, it would be for me.</p>
<p>Jen: I&#8217;m very sorry to hear about that.  I brought up the medium topic because my weblink contained one. Then it was discredited.  I&#8217;m only advocating that people do their research before tossing mine out as quantum pseudoscience.  Your aunt&#8217;s medium experience does sound like a shame.</p>
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		<title>By: I like tea</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-170831</link>
		<dc:creator>I like tea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 15:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-170831</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I would want to go because if she were to tell me something no one could know - that would be evidence that life continues after death&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No it wouldn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I would want to go because if she were to tell me something no one could know &#8211; that would be evidence that life continues after death</p></blockquote>
<p>No it wouldn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-170816</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 14:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-170816</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;By the way, have you ever been to a medium? Why don’t you try going to one yourself. Make sure she/he’s a medium (not just a psychic). And well-respected. Ask her to tell you something no one else could know. This way you can get the evidence first hand and just decide for yourself.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My grandmother died recently.  My aunt, who changes religion like other people change their socks, went to a medium right afterwards.  We gathered for the funeral, and my aunt told me what the medium says.

A bit of background: my aunt is in her 50s, my grandfather was involved in WWII.

The medium, who was a friend of a friend, told my aunt that my grandfather had seen his best friend blown up.  Now, as far as we know, this didn&#039;t happen, because my grandfather did not see combat.  Where, then, would his best friend have blown up?  It is not hard to believe that a woman in her 50s had a father in WWII.  The medium also told her that my grandfather had &quot;anger issues&quot;- again, that is true, but not exactly a stretch, given his generation.  When my aunt agreed, the medium went on to say that my grandfather was bipolar. He (the medium) said that my grandparents were appearing to him in their &quot;preferred bodies&quot; which was during their engagement, which had to be pre-40s.  Yes, again, they were engaged prior to the war, but that is not exactly something he couldn&#039;t have guessed.  He also told my aunt that my grandmother&#039;s death was instant- also true.

There was nothing from the reading that he couldn&#039;t have guessed based on my aunt&#039;s age.  I also don&#039;t know what he might have gotten wrong- she isn&#039;t going to tell the skeptic what was flat-out wrong from the reading, if she even remembers.  And my aunt has a vivid set of facial expressions, so while she may claim it would be hard to do a cold reading on her, it would not- her facial expressions would easily give away how hot or cold he was to the truth.

My aunt believed the guy.  I look at it this way: my family now believes that my grandfather was a bipolar man who lied about going to combat.  We will never know, because he is dead.  Eventually, this will filter into the family history even though we have no way to test this or fact-check it.  I think that is a shame, because it is going to eclipse actual facts about him.  

My aunt paid this guy to destroy our memories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>By the way, have you ever been to a medium? Why don’t you try going to one yourself. Make sure she/he’s a medium (not just a psychic). And well-respected. Ask her to tell you something no one else could know. This way you can get the evidence first hand and just decide for yourself.</p></blockquote>
<p>My grandmother died recently.  My aunt, who changes religion like other people change their socks, went to a medium right afterwards.  We gathered for the funeral, and my aunt told me what the medium says.</p>
<p>A bit of background: my aunt is in her 50s, my grandfather was involved in WWII.</p>
<p>The medium, who was a friend of a friend, told my aunt that my grandfather had seen his best friend blown up.  Now, as far as we know, this didn&#8217;t happen, because my grandfather did not see combat.  Where, then, would his best friend have blown up?  It is not hard to believe that a woman in her 50s had a father in WWII.  The medium also told her that my grandfather had &#8220;anger issues&#8221;- again, that is true, but not exactly a stretch, given his generation.  When my aunt agreed, the medium went on to say that my grandfather was bipolar. He (the medium) said that my grandparents were appearing to him in their &#8220;preferred bodies&#8221; which was during their engagement, which had to be pre-40s.  Yes, again, they were engaged prior to the war, but that is not exactly something he couldn&#8217;t have guessed.  He also told my aunt that my grandmother&#8217;s death was instant- also true.</p>
<p>There was nothing from the reading that he couldn&#8217;t have guessed based on my aunt&#8217;s age.  I also don&#8217;t know what he might have gotten wrong- she isn&#8217;t going to tell the skeptic what was flat-out wrong from the reading, if she even remembers.  And my aunt has a vivid set of facial expressions, so while she may claim it would be hard to do a cold reading on her, it would not- her facial expressions would easily give away how hot or cold he was to the truth.</p>
<p>My aunt believed the guy.  I look at it this way: my family now believes that my grandfather was a bipolar man who lied about going to combat.  We will never know, because he is dead.  Eventually, this will filter into the family history even though we have no way to test this or fact-check it.  I think that is a shame, because it is going to eclipse actual facts about him.  </p>
<p>My aunt paid this guy to destroy our memories.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer M</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-170810</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 14:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/creationist-why-am-i-always-wrong/#comment-170810</guid>
		<description>OK, Cipher, maybe we should read Ian Stevenson. I&#039;m certainly not against reincarnation.  I support that too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, Cipher, maybe we should read Ian Stevenson. I&#8217;m certainly not against reincarnation.  I support that too.</p>
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