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	<title>Comments on: Why Do Humans Practice Religion?</title>
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	<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/</link>
	<description>Atheism with Positivity</description>
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		<title>By: Cathy</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-159030</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve heard the theory that religion usually arises from avoidance of the reality of death and as an attempt to explain the unknown.  You know, things like we don&#039;t know why the sun rises so there must be a dude up there with a chariot (haha some greeks actually believed that once upon a time)?  There&#039;s also heaven, nirvana, reincarnation, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard the theory that religion usually arises from avoidance of the reality of death and as an attempt to explain the unknown.  You know, things like we don&#8217;t know why the sun rises so there must be a dude up there with a chariot (haha some greeks actually believed that once upon a time)?  There&#8217;s also heaven, nirvana, reincarnation, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: David D.G.</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158822</link>
		<dc:creator>David D.G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/#comment-158822</guid>
		<description>Humans alone practice religion because they&#039;re still trying to get it right.


~David D.G.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Humans alone practice religion because they&#8217;re still trying to get it right.</p>
<p>~David D.G.</p>
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		<title>By: Viggo the Carpathian</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158698</link>
		<dc:creator>Viggo the Carpathian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/#comment-158698</guid>
		<description>&quot;Chimps may or may not have imagination, but they demonstrably lack the ability to take what they privately imagine and share it with others.&quot;

Absolutely, I remember sitting in many anthropology classes and lectures listening to people with advanced degrees going on and on about how close chimps and bonobos are to humans and wanting to stand up and shout, &#039;show me one building built by an ape, one book written, one piece of art.&#039; 
I extend great hope to the non-human primates but to do anything other that let the evidience speak for itself is wishing, and wishing is not science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Chimps may or may not have imagination, but they demonstrably lack the ability to take what they privately imagine and share it with others.&#8221;</p>
<p>Absolutely, I remember sitting in many anthropology classes and lectures listening to people with advanced degrees going on and on about how close chimps and bonobos are to humans and wanting to stand up and shout, &#8217;show me one building built by an ape, one book written, one piece of art.&#8217;<br />
I extend great hope to the non-human primates but to do anything other that let the evidience speak for itself is wishing, and wishing is not science.</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158458</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m skeptical.  The research is ongoing.  And, by the way, the point was not language or imagination among other species sufficient for religion as we know it, but imagination in other species, whether or not they express anything similar to what we think of as religion, or imaginative explanations for reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m skeptical.  The research is ongoing.  And, by the way, the point was not language or imagination among other species sufficient for religion as we know it, but imagination in other species, whether or not they express anything similar to what we think of as religion, or imaginative explanations for reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158430</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/#comment-158430</guid>
		<description>When the data is in and it is good, then equivocal statements aren&#039;t honest, in my opinion.

While the current research may leave some uncertainty over whether chimps use 5-10 different &quot;words&quot; or calls in the wild, and are capable of 100 or 300 words with training, I think it&#039;s pretty clear that the concepts and tenses necessary to convey a religion have been definitively ruled out.

Since the data is available, then we should respect it and follow it, rather than trying for some false equivocation.  Remain open to new evidence as always, but accept the evidence we have right now.  Whether we like it or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the data is in and it is good, then equivocal statements aren&#8217;t honest, in my opinion.</p>
<p>While the current research may leave some uncertainty over whether chimps use 5-10 different &#8220;words&#8221; or calls in the wild, and are capable of 100 or 300 words with training, I think it&#8217;s pretty clear that the concepts and tenses necessary to convey a religion have been definitively ruled out.</p>
<p>Since the data is available, then we should respect it and follow it, rather than trying for some false equivocation.  Remain open to new evidence as always, but accept the evidence we have right now.  Whether we like it or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158425</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/#comment-158425</guid>
		<description>Adrian, my point was simply that the jury is still out and that there is no reason to make unequivocal assertions as you have done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrian, my point was simply that the jury is still out and that there is no reason to make unequivocal assertions as you have done.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158419</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/#comment-158419</guid>
		<description>Darryl,

&lt;blockquote&gt;I understand that chimps are smarter than apes, and apes have been trained in the use of language (a system of symbolic representation), have invented neologisms with the language, and have taught their young the language.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;Ape&quot; is a term referring to a number of different species, including the gorillas, bonobos, orangutans, and yes, chimps and humans .  It would be more helpful if you would refer to the species directly when talking about research so we can check.  (And so, as a nit, chimps aren&#039;t smarter than apes; they are an ape.)

While there have been claims that apes (including chimps) have developed new words or learned language, the results have been poor.  Many of the claims have been exaggerated and confirmation bias seems to be very strong.  What looks like stringing words together in an original configuration could be just random words and associations.  At best, the number of words that chimps have mastered has been very small, and no modern ape (apart from us) has ever been able to communicate the depth required to pass along the concepts required for a religion.

It gets worse.  Even if we assume that some apes can be taught sign language or to use a touch-pad to communicate, we&#039;ve seen virtually nothing like this in the wild.  The closest that I&#039;m aware of is calls which differentiate between some predators or to say that danger is over.  The concepts required to communicate a religion are many orders of magnitude larger than anything we&#039;ve seen outside of humans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darryl,</p>
<blockquote><p>I understand that chimps are smarter than apes, and apes have been trained in the use of language (a system of symbolic representation), have invented neologisms with the language, and have taught their young the language.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Ape&#8221; is a term referring to a number of different species, including the gorillas, bonobos, orangutans, and yes, chimps and humans .  It would be more helpful if you would refer to the species directly when talking about research so we can check.  (And so, as a nit, chimps aren&#8217;t smarter than apes; they are an ape.)</p>
<p>While there have been claims that apes (including chimps) have developed new words or learned language, the results have been poor.  Many of the claims have been exaggerated and confirmation bias seems to be very strong.  What looks like stringing words together in an original configuration could be just random words and associations.  At best, the number of words that chimps have mastered has been very small, and no modern ape (apart from us) has ever been able to communicate the depth required to pass along the concepts required for a religion.</p>
<p>It gets worse.  Even if we assume that some apes can be taught sign language or to use a touch-pad to communicate, we&#8217;ve seen virtually nothing like this in the wild.  The closest that I&#8217;m aware of is calls which differentiate between some predators or to say that danger is over.  The concepts required to communicate a religion are many orders of magnitude larger than anything we&#8217;ve seen outside of humans.</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158412</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/#comment-158412</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Chimps may or may not have imagination, but they demonstrably lack the ability to take what they privately imagine and share it with others.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t think we can be sure of this.  I understand that chimps are smarter than apes, and apes have been trained in the use of language (a system of symbolic representation), have invented neologisms with the language, and have taught their young the language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Chimps may or may not have imagination, but they demonstrably lack the ability to take what they privately imagine and share it with others.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we can be sure of this.  I understand that chimps are smarter than apes, and apes have been trained in the use of language (a system of symbolic representation), have invented neologisms with the language, and have taught their young the language.</p>
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		<title>By: mikespeir</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158411</link>
		<dc:creator>mikespeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/#comment-158411</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see the ideas as incompatible.  Surely, we wouldn&#039;t have invented religion without imagination.  But for religion to have persisted as long as it has required that it have some practical application, such as contributing to social bonding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see the ideas as incompatible.  Surely, we wouldn&#8217;t have invented religion without imagination.  But for religion to have persisted as long as it has required that it have some practical application, such as contributing to social bonding.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-158391</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/04/27/why-do-humans-practice-religion/#comment-158391</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s necessary but not sufficient to have imagination.  Chimps may or may not have imagination, but they demonstrably lack the ability to take what they privately imagine and share it with others.

What humans have is the ability to talk, share ideas, transmit rituals and belief between people and between generations.  Without this, imaginary beliefs must remain with the individual and the dogmatic structure necessary for a religion cannot evolve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s necessary but not sufficient to have imagination.  Chimps may or may not have imagination, but they demonstrably lack the ability to take what they privately imagine and share it with others.</p>
<p>What humans have is the ability to talk, share ideas, transmit rituals and belief between people and between generations.  Without this, imaginary beliefs must remain with the individual and the dogmatic structure necessary for a religion cannot evolve.</p>
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