<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Jesus Meat</title>
	<atom:link href="http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/</link>
	<description>Atheism with Positivity</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:59:02 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: cipher</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139660</link>
		<dc:creator>cipher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139660</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The piston spike gun used in slaughter houses uses pneumatics to drive a spike directly into the brain of the cow, causing instant brain failure and subsequent death.&lt;/em&gt;

Actually, when I said &quot;stun&quot;, I meant the spike method. I think someone else had said &quot;stun&quot; earlier, and I was conflating them. I should have been clearer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The piston spike gun used in slaughter houses uses pneumatics to drive a spike directly into the brain of the cow, causing instant brain failure and subsequent death.</em></p>
<p>Actually, when I said &#8220;stun&#8221;, I meant the spike method. I think someone else had said &#8220;stun&#8221; earlier, and I was conflating them. I should have been clearer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aj</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139584</link>
		<dc:creator>Aj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139584</guid>
		<description>robin,

&lt;blockquote&gt;What’s the fuss? He’s not limiting his selection to just Christians but to small local farmers who produce in a morally responsible way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s mighty disingenuous of you.

&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s not so different that supporting a business becasue of a shared ethnic background.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Racism and nationalism, together? Great! I&#039;m so pleased.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>robin,</p>
<blockquote><p>What’s the fuss? He’s not limiting his selection to just Christians but to small local farmers who produce in a morally responsible way.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s mighty disingenuous of you.</p>
<blockquote><p>It’s not so different that supporting a business becasue of a shared ethnic background.</p></blockquote>
<p>Racism and nationalism, together? Great! I&#8217;m so pleased.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MikeClawson</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139505</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeClawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139505</guid>
		<description>excellent points robin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent points robin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hoverFrog</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139489</link>
		<dc:creator>hoverFrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139489</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Is it really necessary to freak out every time the word “Christian” comes up?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I thought &quot;Jesus Freak&quot; was an instruction.  Oops!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Is it really necessary to freak out every time the word “Christian” comes up?</p></blockquote>
<p>I thought &#8220;Jesus Freak&#8221; was an instruction.  Oops!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: robin</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139484</link>
		<dc:creator>robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139484</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But to the best I’m able to provide, it will be meat raised by Christian small farmers in the Dallas area or otherwise produced in a morally responsible way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What&#039;s the fuss? He&#039;s not limiting his selection to just Christians but to small local farmers who produce in a morally responsible way. 

It&#039;s great that people are making an effort to source their meat from farms that treat animals well. This guy assumes small christian farms will provide that (not always true) but makes it clear he will take the meat from whoever can.

It seems he is also trying to support his local community and the one he identifies with is Christian. It&#039;s not so different that supporting a business becasue of a shared ethnic background.

Is it really necessary to freak out every time the word &quot;Christian&quot; comes up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But to the best I’m able to provide, it will be meat raised by Christian small farmers in the Dallas area or otherwise produced in a morally responsible way.</p></blockquote>
<p>What&#8217;s the fuss? He&#8217;s not limiting his selection to just Christians but to small local farmers who produce in a morally responsible way. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s great that people are making an effort to source their meat from farms that treat animals well. This guy assumes small christian farms will provide that (not always true) but makes it clear he will take the meat from whoever can.</p>
<p>It seems he is also trying to support his local community and the one he identifies with is Christian. It&#8217;s not so different that supporting a business becasue of a shared ethnic background.</p>
<p>Is it really necessary to freak out every time the word &#8220;Christian&#8221; comes up?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aj</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139435</link>
		<dc:creator>Aj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139435</guid>
		<description>Maybe he thinks non-Christians will fuck them before he eats them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe he thinks non-Christians will fuck them before he eats them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Vincent</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139410</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139410</guid>
		<description>Just to add details/random facts...
The piston spike gun used in slaughter houses uses pneumatics to drive a spike directly into the brain of the cow, causing instant brain failure and subsequent death.

Pigs on the other hand have incredibly thick skulls full of sinuses.  The spike would only make a pig angry.  Thus pigs are slaughtered by the throat slitting method.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to add details/random facts&#8230;<br />
The piston spike gun used in slaughter houses uses pneumatics to drive a spike directly into the brain of the cow, causing instant brain failure and subsequent death.</p>
<p>Pigs on the other hand have incredibly thick skulls full of sinuses.  The spike would only make a pig angry.  Thus pigs are slaughtered by the throat slitting method.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cipher</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139372</link>
		<dc:creator>cipher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139372</guid>
		<description>If I may weigh in on the kosher issue - 

&lt;i&gt;Shechita&lt;/i&gt;, the act of kosher slaughtering, isn&#039;t necessarily more brutal than its conventional counterpart. The &lt;i&gt;shochet&lt;/i&gt;, or ritual slaughterer, has to be trained and has to have studied the Talmudic texts pertaining to the dietary laws. An extremely sharp blade is drawn quickly across the throat, in one continuous motion, severing the jugular vein, carotid artery, esophagus and trachea. If done properly, the animal is supposed to be rendered insensible almost immediately, due to the severing of the nerve and a sudden outpouring of blood from the vessels leading to the brain. If the blade has even the tiniest nick, or if the shochet falters, the meat is rendered non-kosher, or &lt;i&gt;treif&lt;/i&gt;.

The process itself isn&#039;t &quot;blessed&quot; by a rabbi; this is a popular misconception. The &lt;i&gt;shochet&lt;/i&gt; may be a rabbi, but he needn&#039;t be. A rabbi who is particularly knowledgeable about the laws of &lt;i&gt;kashrut&lt;/i&gt;, the dietary laws, must inspect the premises, and certify that the laws are being observed. In a restaurant or food processing plant, this means that he&#039;s observed their procedures and has determined that none of the laws are being violated - only kosher ingredients are being used, there are separate dishes and utensils for milk and meat, etc.

There is a prohibition (&lt;i&gt;tsa&#039;ar ba&#039;alei chayim&lt;/i&gt;) against causing unnecessary suffering to animals; however, unfortunately, among today&#039;s Orthodox, the emphasis is generally placed upon scrupulous observance of the laws pertaining to slaughtering. The treatment of the animals prior to that isn&#039;t as much of a priority. Some Conservative and Reform rabbis have lobbied for a standard of &lt;i&gt;kashrut&lt;/i&gt; that accommodates &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://rabbimorrisallen2.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ethical&lt;/A&gt; and &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.shalomctr.org/node/1284/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ecological&lt;/A&gt; concerns - but the Orthodox have been reluctant to sign on. (After WW II, there was an influx into America of ultra-Orthodox Jews, who have largely commandeered Orthodoxy. They are often unwilling to work with non-Orthodox Jews on any issue, as they are afraid that it will seem as though they are validating the non-Orthodox denominations.)

Some animal rights groups are oppsed to shechita. They claim that it can take several minutes for the animal to die, even when the act is performed properly. Supposedly, there have been studies demonstrating that it&#039;s inherently more humane than conventional assembly-line slaughtering - but, recently, there have been allegations that a large kosher slaughterhouse in the Midwest has been guilty of slaughtering cattle in an assembly-line manner, and not observing proper procedure. They&#039;re also accused of treating their employees poorly, which, in the eyes of many Jews, also constitutes a violation of the spirit of Jewish law.

I had a conversation not long ago with a non-Jewish friend who is a veterinarian. She feels that the stun method, when done properly, is inherently more humane as it renders the animal unconscious immediately. I suspect that she may be correct, but we&#039;ll never get the Orthodox on board, and I think that &lt;i&gt;shechita&lt;/i&gt; is probably the best alternative.

By the way, the business about pork and shellfish - that prohibition was meant specifically for the Israelites. Gentiles were enjoined simply to refrain from eating a limb torn from a living animal.

This concludes today&#039;s lesson in Jewish Studies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I may weigh in on the kosher issue &#8211; </p>
<p><i>Shechita</i>, the act of kosher slaughtering, isn&#8217;t necessarily more brutal than its conventional counterpart. The <i>shochet</i>, or ritual slaughterer, has to be trained and has to have studied the Talmudic texts pertaining to the dietary laws. An extremely sharp blade is drawn quickly across the throat, in one continuous motion, severing the jugular vein, carotid artery, esophagus and trachea. If done properly, the animal is supposed to be rendered insensible almost immediately, due to the severing of the nerve and a sudden outpouring of blood from the vessels leading to the brain. If the blade has even the tiniest nick, or if the shochet falters, the meat is rendered non-kosher, or <i>treif</i>.</p>
<p>The process itself isn&#8217;t &#8220;blessed&#8221; by a rabbi; this is a popular misconception. The <i>shochet</i> may be a rabbi, but he needn&#8217;t be. A rabbi who is particularly knowledgeable about the laws of <i>kashrut</i>, the dietary laws, must inspect the premises, and certify that the laws are being observed. In a restaurant or food processing plant, this means that he&#8217;s observed their procedures and has determined that none of the laws are being violated &#8211; only kosher ingredients are being used, there are separate dishes and utensils for milk and meat, etc.</p>
<p>There is a prohibition (<i>tsa&#8217;ar ba&#8217;alei chayim</i>) against causing unnecessary suffering to animals; however, unfortunately, among today&#8217;s Orthodox, the emphasis is generally placed upon scrupulous observance of the laws pertaining to slaughtering. The treatment of the animals prior to that isn&#8217;t as much of a priority. Some Conservative and Reform rabbis have lobbied for a standard of <i>kashrut</i> that accommodates <a HREF="http://rabbimorrisallen2.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">ethical</a> and <a HREF="http://www.shalomctr.org/node/1284/" rel="nofollow">ecological</a> concerns &#8211; but the Orthodox have been reluctant to sign on. (After WW II, there was an influx into America of ultra-Orthodox Jews, who have largely commandeered Orthodoxy. They are often unwilling to work with non-Orthodox Jews on any issue, as they are afraid that it will seem as though they are validating the non-Orthodox denominations.)</p>
<p>Some animal rights groups are oppsed to shechita. They claim that it can take several minutes for the animal to die, even when the act is performed properly. Supposedly, there have been studies demonstrating that it&#8217;s inherently more humane than conventional assembly-line slaughtering &#8211; but, recently, there have been allegations that a large kosher slaughterhouse in the Midwest has been guilty of slaughtering cattle in an assembly-line manner, and not observing proper procedure. They&#8217;re also accused of treating their employees poorly, which, in the eyes of many Jews, also constitutes a violation of the spirit of Jewish law.</p>
<p>I had a conversation not long ago with a non-Jewish friend who is a veterinarian. She feels that the stun method, when done properly, is inherently more humane as it renders the animal unconscious immediately. I suspect that she may be correct, but we&#8217;ll never get the Orthodox on board, and I think that <i>shechita</i> is probably the best alternative.</p>
<p>By the way, the business about pork and shellfish &#8211; that prohibition was meant specifically for the Israelites. Gentiles were enjoined simply to refrain from eating a limb torn from a living animal.</p>
<p>This concludes today&#8217;s lesson in Jewish Studies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Secular Dignity</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139351</link>
		<dc:creator>Secular Dignity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139351</guid>
		<description>He did make an interesting point about the Depression as a possible cause of Americans&#039; love of meat. That makes some sense to me.

He also said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;We live as we like in our individual bodies and deny the consequences to our communities and our idividual souls. Which is why we need Lent. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Maybe you need religion to not be a jerk, but please do not project that onto others.

(And yes, the word &quot;individual&quot; is misspelled on their site. I did not catch it until the comment editor here caught it.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He did make an interesting point about the Depression as a possible cause of Americans&#8217; love of meat. That makes some sense to me.</p>
<p>He also said:</p>
<blockquote><p>We live as we like in our individual bodies and deny the consequences to our communities and our idividual souls. Which is why we need Lent. </p></blockquote>
<p>Maybe you need religion to not be a jerk, but please do not project that onto others.</p>
<p>(And yes, the word &#8220;individual&#8221; is misspelled on their site. I did not catch it until the comment editor here caught it.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Epistaxis</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-139276</link>
		<dc:creator>Epistaxis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/03/11/jesus-meat/#comment-139276</guid>
		<description>If you read Pollan&#039;s book, you&#039;ll see what why Dreher responded that way. &lt;i&gt;The Omnivore&#039;s Dilemma&lt;/i&gt; is about the hygiene and efficiency of food production, and doesn&#039;t really talk about ethics. There&#039;s one disappointing chapter about vegetarianism, where Pollan corresponds with Peter Singer, but like many people he thinks meat is tasty so he doesn&#039;t go there. That&#039;s probably why his book got so much traction, unfortunately.

Sara:
&lt;blockquote&gt;He should just eat kosher meat. As far as I know “kosher” implies (among other things when pertaining to meat) that it’s been blessed by a rabbi.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That might be more hygienic or it might not, but it&#039;s actually more cruel - I&#039;m not sure which you were going for. To be kosher, the animal can&#039;t be unconscious when it&#039;s killed (usually cattle are stunned with the gizmo from &lt;i&gt;No Country for Old Men&lt;/i&gt; to be slightly more humane); kosher meat comes from animals whose throats are slit so they slowly bleed to death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you read Pollan&#8217;s book, you&#8217;ll see what why Dreher responded that way. <i>The Omnivore&#8217;s Dilemma</i> is about the hygiene and efficiency of food production, and doesn&#8217;t really talk about ethics. There&#8217;s one disappointing chapter about vegetarianism, where Pollan corresponds with Peter Singer, but like many people he thinks meat is tasty so he doesn&#8217;t go there. That&#8217;s probably why his book got so much traction, unfortunately.</p>
<p>Sara:</p>
<blockquote><p>He should just eat kosher meat. As far as I know “kosher” implies (among other things when pertaining to meat) that it’s been blessed by a rabbi.</p></blockquote>
<p>That might be more hygienic or it might not, but it&#8217;s actually more cruel &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure which you were going for. To be kosher, the animal can&#8217;t be unconscious when it&#8217;s killed (usually cattle are stunned with the gizmo from <i>No Country for Old Men</i> to be slightly more humane); kosher meat comes from animals whose throats are slit so they slowly bleed to death.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
