Comments on: 14 Years Too Late http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/ Atheism with Positivity Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:52:58 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: andy http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-131311 andy Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:51:11 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-131311 Friendly Atheist, I don't think cheating on a test is comparable to a stabbing/robbery crime. No one can revoke someone's college diploma for admitting they cheated on a test years before, can they? in this case, however, knowing the consequences for his actions could cause him jail time, I think he certainly did the right thing, but should NOT excuse him from paying the penalty he can and should be responsible for paying. Friendly Atheist,

I don’t think cheating on a test is comparable to a stabbing/robbery crime.

No one can revoke someone’s college diploma for admitting they cheated on a test years before, can they? in this case, however, knowing the consequences for his actions could cause him jail time, I think he certainly did the right thing, but should NOT excuse him from paying the penalty he can and should be responsible for paying.

]]> By: hoverFrog http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-131019 hoverFrog Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:11:54 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-131019 He woulda gotten away with it too, if it wasn't fer those kids...and their dang dog. I think that before calling him a hero you need to look at his motivation for confession. Was it simply because he had gained sufficient insight into his own moral character (through personal growth or religious growth is irrelevant)? That does say something about his character. Moreso if he desires to make some kind of recompense to his victims. The victims here are the store, the clerk and the people he deceived over the years. Was it pressure from another person or group? That doesn't make him heroic or brave, just led. He has not reformed, he is merely doing as he is told. Was it guilt and the fear of impending capture? I know 14 years is a long time but guilt can eat a person up. This does indicate that he is capable of determining right and wrong and the offer to submit himself to the law of the land shows that he is willing to pay for the crime. Pay for it but not to compensate the victims. He woulda gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t fer those kids…and their dang dog.

I think that before calling him a hero you need to look at his motivation for confession.

Was it simply because he had gained sufficient insight into his own moral character (through personal growth or religious growth is irrelevant)? That does say something about his character. Moreso if he desires to make some kind of recompense to his victims. The victims here are the store, the clerk and the people he deceived over the years.

Was it pressure from another person or group? That doesn’t make him heroic or brave, just led. He has not reformed, he is merely doing as he is told.

Was it guilt and the fear of impending capture? I know 14 years is a long time but guilt can eat a person up. This does indicate that he is capable of determining right and wrong and the offer to submit himself to the law of the land shows that he is willing to pay for the crime. Pay for it but not to compensate the victims.

]]> By: QrazyQat http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-130838 QrazyQat Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:06:44 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-130838 If he'd shot the clerk instead of stabbing him he'd be a saint! If he’d shot the clerk instead of stabbing him he’d be a saint!

]]> By: robin http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-130820 robin Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:52:38 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-130820 It's the Cherry Tree story all over again. Isn't that one of the most important stories that young Americans are told? This means "I cannot tell a lie" makes one a virtuous man regardless of his other actions. It's not just religious, it's cultural. It’s the Cherry Tree story all over again. Isn’t that one of the most important stories that young Americans are told? This means “I cannot tell a lie” makes one a virtuous man regardless of his other actions. It’s not just religious, it’s cultural.

]]> By: Darwin's Dagger http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-130812 Darwin's Dagger Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:35:15 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-130812 It may be commendable that this guy finally stepped up and confessed, but that in no way makes him a hero, or less a murderer. It may be commendable that this guy finally stepped up and confessed, but that in no way makes him a hero, or less a murderer.

]]> By: Sarah H. http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-130768 Sarah H. Wed, 20 Feb 2008 00:23:39 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-130768 Like Cobwebs, I'm most appalled at the implication by the woman quoted in the article that Inman went a step further than was expected of him as a Christian by confessing to (human) authority and that asking God's forgiveness would have been enough to somehow cleanse him. It's clear they consider him already cleansed by his faith, and I completely agree with the comments regarding the way he would be treated if he wasn't a Christian. Like Cobwebs, I’m most appalled at the implication by the woman quoted in the article that Inman went a step further than was expected of him as a Christian by confessing to (human) authority and that asking God’s forgiveness would have been enough to somehow cleanse him.

It’s clear they consider him already cleansed by his faith, and I completely agree with the comments regarding the way he would be treated if he wasn’t a Christian.

]]> By: Spurs Fan http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-130693 Spurs Fan Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:12:08 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-130693 <blockquote>An atheist claiming that he didn’t murder anyone? Yeah right. If this nice pastor killed a guy, atheists must be far worse. Better off just saying that you you haven’t murdered anyone for quite a while and have seriously considered stopping entirely. Baby steps.</blockquote> Okay, okay...perhaps I "murdered" the Holy Spirit. Wait, many of my Christian friends tell me that since I have "backslidden", I didn't really have the Holy Spirit in the first place. Another useless debates ensues....

An atheist claiming that he didn’t murder anyone? Yeah right. If this nice pastor killed a guy, atheists must be far worse. Better off just saying that you you haven’t murdered anyone for quite a while and have seriously considered stopping entirely. Baby steps.

Okay, okay…perhaps I “murdered” the Holy Spirit. Wait, many of my Christian friends tell me that since I have “backslidden”, I didn’t really have the Holy Spirit in the first place. Another useless debates ensues….

]]> By: Adrian http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-130687 Adrian Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:51:49 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-130687 <blockquote>I, have also gone 30 years without murdering anyone. A couple of years ago, I confessed to my wife that I no longer had a belief in God and am now an Atheist. I wonder if that would get the label “hero” at her church.</blockquote> An <i>atheist</i> claiming that he didn't murder anyone? Yeah right. If this nice pastor killed a guy, atheists must be far worse. Better off just saying that you you haven't murdered anyone for quite a while and have seriously considered stopping entirely. Baby steps.

I, have also gone 30 years without murdering anyone. A couple of years ago, I confessed to my wife that I no longer had a belief in God and am now an Atheist. I wonder if that would get the label “hero” at her church.

An atheist claiming that he didn’t murder anyone? Yeah right. If this nice pastor killed a guy, atheists must be far worse. Better off just saying that you you haven’t murdered anyone for quite a while and have seriously considered stopping entirely. Baby steps.

]]> By: lowoolo http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-130673 lowoolo Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:14:59 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-130673 1. Am I the only one entertaining the possibility that this confession was made for purely selfish reasons? Can you imagine a) killing someone <strong>as a 15-year-old</strong>, b) lying about and covering up the crime in the immediate aftermath, c) continuing the charade through what we can presume to be some sort of formal theological training, and d) mentoring -- hell, having <em>anything</em> to do with -- kids that are the <strong>same age as you were</strong> when you committed murder?! That kind of constant, crushing guilt can only be relieved by coming clean about what you did. 2. I hate to be obvious, but...does anyone honestly believe that these same kind-hearted churchgoers would be so quick to forgive a...let's say, 'lesser' person for the same crime? What if the "role model" in the story was replaced with the creepy neighbor; his christianity replaced with atheism? I can just picture the mother in the article above providing a new sound bite lamenting the frightening fact that "people like that" could be living right next door and you'd never know it. And then crying out for justice, of course: "fry the bastard!" 1. Am I the only one entertaining the possibility that this confession was made for purely selfish reasons? Can you imagine a) killing someone as a 15-year-old, b) lying about and covering up the crime in the immediate aftermath, c) continuing the charade through what we can presume to be some sort of formal theological training, and d) mentoring — hell, having anything to do with — kids that are the same age as you were when you committed murder?! That kind of constant, crushing guilt can only be relieved by coming clean about what you did.

2. I hate to be obvious, but…does anyone honestly believe that these same kind-hearted churchgoers would be so quick to forgive a…let’s say, ‘lesser’ person for the same crime? What if the “role model” in the story was replaced with the creepy neighbor; his christianity replaced with atheism? I can just picture the mother in the article above providing a new sound bite lamenting the frightening fact that “people like that” could be living right next door and you’d never know it. And then crying out for justice, of course: “fry the bastard!”

]]> By: Siamang http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/comment-page-1/#comment-130659 Siamang Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:52:25 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/02/19/14-years-too-late/#comment-130659 Let's not forget that this is texas, a place where religious conservatives argue forcefully and rabidly for the death penalty for such crimes. This is a <a href="http://www.elimoasis.org/content/blogcategory/23/30/" rel="nofollow">"fire and brimstone," speaking in tongues, if you aint' with us, you're gonna burn,</a> church we're talking about. If he's such a good Christian, let God forgive him post electric-chair. His (presumably non-Christian) victim, sadly won't be afforded such grace. Let's review the case as it was written up at the time: <blockquote>Houston Chronicle August 15, 1994 Worker slain in store Author: Staff, wire reports A Houston man was stabbed to death Sunday afternoon while working at a Pasadena convenience store. Detective K. Crislip of the Pasadena Police Department said Iqbal Ahmed, about 68, appeared to have been stabbed once in the chest while working behind the counter at Mumtaz Grocery in the 4100 block of Yellowstone. <strong>Police believe Ahmed's 5-year-old grandson was in the store at the time of the stabbing, but they were unable to get any solid information from the child. </strong>"We really don't have any motive right now," Crislip said. Crislip said the boy apparently ran next door to have someone call for help for his grandfather. Ahmed was dead at the scene, Crislip said. Crislip said nothing appeared to be missing from the store, which Ahmed's son-in-law had bought only last week. Crislip is asking that anyone with information about the case call 475-7896 Copyright 1994 Houston Chronicle</blockquote> Thats right. He killed a 68 year old man, <strong>in front of his 5 year old grandson</strong>! >:( Fuck. I'm against the death penalty. I really, really am. But this scumbag tests my resolve in this area. Let’s not forget that this is texas, a place where religious conservatives argue forcefully and rabidly for the death penalty for such crimes. This is a “fire and brimstone,” speaking in tongues, if you aint’ with us, you’re gonna burn, church we’re talking about.

If he’s such a good Christian, let God forgive him post electric-chair. His (presumably non-Christian) victim, sadly won’t be afforded such grace.

Let’s review the case as it was written up at the time:

Houston Chronicle
August 15, 1994

Worker slain in store
Author: Staff, wire reports

A Houston man was stabbed to death Sunday afternoon while working at a Pasadena convenience store.
Detective K. Crislip of the Pasadena Police Department said Iqbal Ahmed, about 68, appeared to have been stabbed once in the chest while working behind the counter at Mumtaz Grocery in the 4100 block of Yellowstone. Police believe Ahmed’s 5-year-old grandson was in the store at the time of the stabbing, but they were unable to get any solid information from the child.
“We really don’t have any motive right now,” Crislip said.
Crislip said the boy apparently ran next door to have someone call for help for his grandfather.
Ahmed was dead at the scene, Crislip said.
Crislip said nothing appeared to be missing from the store, which Ahmed’s son-in-law had bought only last week.
Crislip is asking that anyone with information about the case call 475-7896
Copyright 1994 Houston Chronicle

Thats right. He killed a 68 year old man, in front of his 5 year old grandson! >:(

Fuck. I’m against the death penalty. I really, really am. But this scumbag tests my resolve in this area.

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