You’re misrepresenting the idea of Jewish atheism as somehow racist. Is pride in one’s culture racist? What about when that culture has been persecuted for thousands of years, and when its successes (Einstein, Mahler, whoever) and cohesiveness stand as beacons in the darkness of that persecution? And if you look at non-Jewish media representations of Jews in the US and in Europe, the messages are overwhelmingly negative: the women are harpies, the men are feminine, everyone loves money and power, everyone’s ugly and twisted–pride in one’s heritage and culture is a form of combating this. For many Jews, secular and religious, that’s how they see it. (Never mind the fact that people of other religions and cultures can convert, and are fully accepted.)
I agree with you that the idea of cultural exclusiveness, when partnered with the idea of being a Divinely Chosen People, is problematic and politically dangerous sometimes, BUT I don’t know any Jewish atheists who buy into that. In fact, many Jews, both practicing and not, are turned off by that idea–and that’s why it’s becoming less centralized in certain movements (such as humanistic Judaism and Liberal Judaism), NOT to fly under the radar of everyone else (and I find that idea offensive; it ties very neatly into anti-Semitic discourse and conspiracy theories. Please clarify?). This respect for one’s background and people–that’s a part of the human experience.
Your argument assumes ONE type of Jewish atheist who is unwilling to relinquish the idea of ethnic supremacy when he or she becomes an unbeliever. I’m sorry, but I just don’t know anyone who is like that–and man, do I know a lot of Jewish atheists. We’re very nice people, you should hang out with some and see how diverse our opinions are instead of constructing some sort of straw man. Julie, above, might agree with you, but for every Julie there’s at least one Hayley who sees the idea of cultural Judaism as a matter of pride, a way of finding people with a common background, and a reminder of strength in the face of oppression, but does not claim that the Jewish people’s history makes them better or worse than anyone else.
For the record: I’m a fourth-generation secular Jew (matrilinear, but that only really matters to the Orthodox and Conservatives, and I’ve never known an atheist who gave credence to that idea), my father is a practicing Christian, and no one has ever made me feel like less of a Jew for my Christian parent. I celebrate my Jewishness because I like the community, because I love the history (I’m a Classicist and I study this stuff anyway), because it’s how I grew up, and as a way of subverting the anti-Semitism I’ve encountered.
Besides, there’s a whooooole debate about what makes a Jew, and there are probably as many opinions as there are Jews. The idea of genetic Jewishness is only one part of that–it’s a fascinating debate and you might want to look into it before oversimplifying everything. Trying to say “Jewish atheism is this!” or “Jews think that!” is like trying to say “Americans are all like this!” There’s an old joke: you ask five Jews a question and get six different opinions. Judaism and atheism mean so many different things to different people, and to lump everything together like you’ve just done–well, you’d better be damn sure you know what you’re talking about, and I’m not at all convinced you do. But good for you for bringing up some interesting points, and I hope I’ve responded delicately

But now, I think the idea that we are some special breed is horrible. I’ve done a complete 180 on it. I don’t want to pass it on to my kids. I don’t want them to think they are special because they were born Jewish. I don’t like it when Jews try to feel me out to see if I am Jewish, and when I am Jewish enough for them (because my mother is Jewish), I don’t like it that I’m suddenly in the Jew club. I find all this reprehensible. I’ve experienced it with jobs and also dating. As soon as it becomes clear that I’m passably genetically Jewish, I’m in! That makes no sense, really.

For a long time, I bought into this tribe mentality, even though I was always pretty agnostic. Now that I’m just an out and out atheist, I really see tribe thinking as just dangerous.

On the other hand, my sense of humor, my taste in food, my politics, and my relationship to my family are undeniably influenced by being Jewish. There is simply no way to deny aspects of my heritage. My entire family would probably classify themselves as “agnostic Jews,” but if you come visit us on any agnostic holiday, you will just feel like you’re hanging out with Jews. They’re Brooklyn accented, funny, liberal, loud–it’s the real deal for sure.

So I value a lot about being raised culturally Jewish, but I don’t want my kids connected with the inherent racism that comes with being “genetically” Jewish. It’s totally abhorrent to me. And I agree with you that the matrilineal Jewish stuff is just not even really meaningful…unless you’re Jewish. That’s why I say, I’m Jewish according to the Jews. But according to me, I reject the special status that comes along with Jewishness by birth. I don’t want it anymore.

Julie

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/law/01/25/circumcision.case/index.html?eref=rss_us

The father has converted to Judaism after divorcing the mother, who is Russian Orthodox.

The son is 12 and the parents are fighting over whether or not he should be circumcised. The judge did an amazing thing – he said to ask the son what HE wants to do.

Tara

It all works out and they can take pride in both sides of their family tree and their ethnicities. Yes, they identify as both Black and White and sometimes Native too, but they’re 1/16 Shawnee and the Cherokee is way back there, so it barely counts.

OK I just may give myself away as to how colour blind I actually am, but isn’t your daughter bi-racial too? She looks mixed- like Asian and European? Then again, I might not have a clue about Asians either.

Yes. You are right. I rebelled and married an Irishman. But as my brother says, we are bananas (yellow on the outside, white on the inside), so the cultural rules don’t completely apply to us.

11th commandment: Only Jews can criticize Jews…
12th commandment: Only Blacks can criticize Blacks…

Great point, Jeff!!

I guess it would be out of the question to suggest that we apply that to Christians, Atheists, and other religions as well?

But wait… I like being criticized and challenged. It must be the masochist in me.

Linda said,

January 25, 2008 at 9:37 pm

Unbrainwashed,

I think it’s not as much as what you say as how you say it. I can see some of the points that your are making as possibly valid and interesting, but the manner in which you present them can be described as offensive. Don’t you think?

I agree with you, Linda, but the way she is talking now, is just plain off the wall and not legitiment, at least concerning what I said.

They frown upon marrying outside of the race (especially the upper class).

OK I just may give myself away as to how colour blind I actually am, but isn’t your daughter bi-racial too? She looks mixed- like Asian and European? Then again, I might not have a clue about Asians either.

I think it’s not as much as what you say as how you say it. I can see some of the points that your are making as possibly valid and interesting, but the manner in which you present them can be described as offensive. Don’t you think?

Jewish people, on the most part (the way I understand it), consider themselves a nation. A culture. A heritage. I come from an Asian culture that has much pride and stick with each other as much as they can. They frown upon marrying outside of the race (especially the upper class). I know of many other cultures with similar feelings of exclusivity and even superiority, so why are you singling out the Jewish?

And yes, I admit I agree with some of what you say. My brother rants about the Jews in the corporate world every time we get together. But then again, I can find worse criticisms about my own culture, and even Americans, not to mention my fellow Christians. So how is that productive?

And by the way, you are not a bad person, Unbrainwashed. I think you’re brave for speaking up your mind honestly in the face of rejection and criticism. I admire you for that. Now if we can just get the rest to not be too offended by the comments…

Sometimes life transcends and is more complex than simple logic…
11th commandment: Only Jews can criticize Jews…
12th commandment: Only Blacks can criticize Blacks…

Why? Because of prior bad behavior by those in power.
Wait another hundred years, then you will be right.

And only White/Native American mothers of White/Black/N.A. children can affectionately call their son, when they have their natural afro grown out, “My little black cotton ball” while patting the top of their heads and get away with it. I do so love my younger son’s natural fro. Wish I could grow one. But I like my native hair too.

The Unbrainwashed said,

January 25, 2008 at 7:09 pm

The problem is that the Jews and blacks have nothing to do with Einstein and MLK.

How so? Black people had a lot to do with MLK and still do! Have you ever been to a MLK march and rally? Such events are loaded with Black people, bi-racial people and the White relatives (AKA moi) of the bi-racial people.

You know, I don’t understand you, and IMHO, you are full of horse manure.

(Side note: I do see color, I just put no value on it.)

Goddammit, does anyone actually AGREE with what I’m saying?

No and for your information, I see my sons when I look at them and when I look at a friend who happens to be Black or Brown, I see my friend. Seems to me, that I put even less value on it than you do, because when I look at my sons I do NOT see my sons as being Black and White or just Black or what have you. I know, but that is not what I see, because I see my sons, but it seems to me you are making a big deal out of colour and ethnicity- I have not except to clarify the group of people I am talking about.

IMHO, you sound like you have an issue and it’s not a good one. In all honesty, you are coming off to me as someone who wants to hide various groups and not acknowledge them, which is just as bad as racism, IMO. Take from a mother whose children inherited two ethnic backgrounds and have learned about both of them. They are proud of both and do not deny either one.

Or even worse imagine if I had classified my opinion on the academic talents of blacks from my experiences with poor, inner city blacks at my public middle school. People are not a result of their genetics and not a reflection of whatever group we want to classify them as being a part of.

You seem to be putting too much into what I said. I never said anything about genetics. As I said before I was talking about a group of people. Oh and she is a very nice rabbi who doesn’t believe in an afterlife and has a very nice congregation who joined us many times on a picnic, invited us to a sedar, and alike. The “us” was the church I was attending. However, I still see her on campus because she teaches there in the fall.

IMHO, I think you need to get over whatever issue is sticking up your craw. If you called my sons malattos, I wouldn’t say a word, but if you called them monkeys, I’d probably get smart and tell you we’re related to some very nice apes or if you called them the N word or me an N lover I’d probably never speak to you again.

There is a BIG difference between distinguishing a group of people and being racists. There is also a big difference between distinguishing a group of people and focusing on colour/ethnicity. What you are doing is focusing on colour/ethnicity. What I did was clarify who I was talking about not some general group of people for clarity.

I don’t know what your problem is, but IMHO you need to get over it. Not only that, you don’t have a clue what you are going on about, esp when you are talking to me. I don’t know what it would take for you to get over it though, but you are talking to the wrong person here and acting like a fool. Sorry, Unbrainwashed, but in this case you’re brainwashed by something.