Posted by Hemant Mehta in A (true) love story to kick off the year. I have talked to the couple and they gave me permission to tell their story.
It’s longer than most of my postings, but I hope you’ll take the time to read it.
…
Kate is a dyed-in-the-wool atheist. She was raised in a non-religious home, but had relatives who were Christians. She recalls her aunt once yelling at her mother over Christmas dinner because Kate had not been baptized. Kate began calling herself an atheist when she was old enough to explore the issues on her own. This wasn’t a big deal in the community she lived in, where religion was kept private and most people she knew were not very religious to begin with.
Still, Kate was very outspoken about her non-belief in God. She had a Darwin Fish symbol on the back of her car. She admits she sometimes sought out Christians for the sole purpose of starting an argument — and she would make jokes about Christianity. Not often, but it happened.
It wasn’t until she went to college that she learned her views on religion actually put her in a minority. When Kate moved into her dorm room her freshman year, she was greeted with cut-outs of Christian sayings that were placed on the wall. Her religious roommate couldn’t have been a more exact polar opposite to Kate. When the roommate opened a biology textbook, she said, “Kate, this book says that evolution is the foundation of biology!” As Kate waited for more, the roommate added, “That’s it… I didn’t think they were allowed to write that!”
As hard as they tried to get along, it was difficult. It didn’t help that the roommate told Kate she was going to hell. When Kate appealed to the roommate to be nicer, she responded that since she was already “saved,” she didn’t have to be nice.
The dorm wasn’t Kate’s only source of religious strife. The Campus Crusade for Christ chapter was a “large, intimidating presence” at her university. A separate group put up a banner in the central part of campus on April 1. It read: “Happy Atheist Day: Psalm 14:1.” (That verse states “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.”) When a student ripped the poster down, it was he who was vilified, not those who put the poster up mocking non-believing students.
Kate managed to endure the Christian environment through the social support network she had back home, but that support was several hundred miles away.
Her experience with Christians finally changed during her junior year of college. She met a guy named Erik in one of her Spanish classes and they became friends. Though, as with many college acquaintances, once the class ended they lost touch. They didn’t reconnect until a year later when they found each other on Facebook.
Facebook profiles give people a chance to write a short description about themselves — they can also list their religion affiliation. Kate and Erik quickly shifted their eyes to see what the other had written in the biography field. It was a shock for both of them. Kate saw Bible verses on Erik’s page. Erik saw the phrase “I’m proud to be an atheist” on Kate’s. They decided to go out, but neither brought up what they had seen on Facebook. However, a couple outings later, they realized just how different their views were. Erik was a devout Christian who led a Bible study group. Kate owned several books about atheism and later joined her campus’s freethought group. They wondered: could you date someone who wasn’t on the same religious (or non-religious) path as yourself?
Yet, as Kate and Erik got to know each other, they found that they shared interests and beliefs on just about everything outside the realm of religion. They were becoming good friends and a tight bond was forming.
“I was a little disappointed, since we got along so well,” Kate said.
Not long after, they began dating, which was as surprising to them as it was for everyone who knew them. And their relationship helped them realize how badly they were treating people who held different viewpoints.
Kate says she learned how to speak appropriately around Christians. When she had previously heard Christians tell Bible stories, she wouldn’t hesitate to say, “Do you really believe that?” The implication was that most Christians were gullible. As she began to know more about Erik, however, she discovered there were educated Christians in the world.
Erik changed as well. Before meeting Kate, he had held the view that all atheists were the product of a bad childhood experience with religion or the result of abuse in the church. Essentially, he believed atheists were atheists because they hated God or Christianity.
Through Kate, he learned that it was possible to be an atheist based on reasoned, logical arguments. It was a well-thought-out system of (non-)belief. It wasn’t always the result of a bad experience or a case of teenage rebellion. Erik didn’t agree with the arguments, but he admits many of them do have merit.
It was a tough transition for the couple, but they began to get used to their differences.
Now try to imagine the reaction of Erik’s parents when they found out Kate was an atheist, a month after they had met her for the first time.
“But, Kate can’t be atheist!” said Erik’s mom. “She’s nice, and I get along with her!”
At the time, his parents thought his attraction to a girl who is an atheist was just a phase. When they found out he was serious about this relationship, they attempted to stop him, telling him that if he married an atheist he would be disobeying God. They were worried that Kate would change Erik’s views about faith.
They just wanted what they thought was best for him. When that didn’t seem to be working, though, they focused their energies on Kate, trying to help her accept Christ as her savior. They told her how much they cared about her, but they were worried about her not sharing their son’s faith. They were also scared. Their dream of having Christian grandchildren was slipping away. Even worse, they were afraid they would lose their son and not see him in Heaven.
At one point, Erik stopped speaking to his parents.
He understood where his parents were coming from: he, too, had once believed that deep inside everyone wanted to be a Christian — it was just a matter of having the opportunity to hear the gospel. It never crossed his mind that other viewpoints could have merit. It was as if their pastor’s reasons for believing in God had worked for Erik’s parents, but the reasons weren’t good enough for Kate. In church, they were taught that these types of theological conversations stopped with the proper Christian answer. They weren’t expecting rebuttals, and when they heard them they didn’t know what to do.
Once, around the time Kate was filling out applications for graduate school, Erik’s mom invited her over for “girl time.” It was going to be just cross-stitching and tea, Kate thought. But during the meeting, the mother brought out the Bible and began reading a verse about how God was in control of the situation. Erik’s mom also mentioned how she wished Kate believed in God — it would lessen her stress about the grad school applications. Kate nodded politely, but inside she was irritated.
When Erik’s father joined in the discussion later that evening (as Erik says, for “tag team evangelism”), the topic turned to evolution and how the parents’ pastor had told them it was flawed for a number of reasons. When Kate heard the reasons, she knew exactly the proper explanations to respond with, but this time she kept her mouth shut. It was the polite thing to do, and for Erik’s sake she wanted to keep the peace.
His parents kept their cool. They told Kate she wasn’t a bad person. She was a sinner just like everyone else. However, what was an innocuous statement for them was incredibly offensive to Kate, who did not feel sinful at all. This conversation lasted for more than five arduous hours. (Erik describes this talk as the time his parents “ninja evangelized.”)
It was this type of interaction that had pushed her even further away from Christianity during college.
Several months later, his parents demanded that either Kate convert to Christianity or Erik put a stop to the relationship.
Despite these harsh words and Kate’s belief that the parents were extremely misguided, she knew their intentions were good. They wanted the best for her, and to their way of thinking, the best involved God.
You may wonder about Kate’s parents’ reaction. Her mother told Kate not to change for Erik. That is, if Kate became a Christian only because Erik was one, it wasn’t the right reason to do so. But her parents knew they taught Kate how to think, not what to think, so they were not worried. Both of Kate’s parents told her they would accept her regardless of her decisions.
It was a far cry from Erik’s Christian home, where his parents essentially told him it was mandatory that Kate change (if marriage was in their future), but it was not permissible the other way around.
Kate continued dating Erik because she knew he was different from his parents.
But how does a relationship like this last? If you ask Kate and Erik, they’ll laugh and tell you they have no idea. (That’s not a joke; they’re serious.) But it turns out they both share core values and a passion to find the truth, whatever it may be.
They also have strong communication and conflict-resolution skills. They both strive to understand each other instead of trying to change the other. If an interfaith relationship with two passionate people is going to work, they say, you can’t be under the delusion that you will change your partner. Not when it comes to faith.
If the subject of God comes up, Kate has learned how to speak about her beliefs without making inappropriate comments. Erik no longer speaks in “us versus them” terminology nor does he use phrases like “being saved” which carry no weight outside conservative Christianity and actually offend non-religious people.
They both also share values and morals, though the reasons for those beliefs come from different places. Erik is more liberal on social issues and focuses on society’s needs such as helping the poor. He sees the Bible as the best guide book for life, not a book filled with literal truths. As he says, he is a follower of Jesus, not the Bible.
Kate says that Erik helped her become a different kind of atheist: one who is more compassionate and understanding. Christians are no longer “the enemy” for her. She removed the Darwin Fish emblem from her car out of respect to others and stopped telling (or laughing at) jokes that ripped on Christians.
For them, love is conquering the barriers that arise between people with such differing beliefs.
Erik no longer sees atheists as a threat to his religion. Instead, he sees them as people who have well-thought-out beliefs. In fact, he says that one of the most difficult challenges to his faith has been Kate’s continued atheism. He believed that if non-Christians were exposed to God’s Word, or a kind Christian who could explain it well, or at least a good church, belief in Jesus’ divinity was unavoidable. Kate was an exception to that unwritten rule.
Speaking of churches, they even go to them together. (Yes, that’s churches, plural.) They spend time going to places of worship and discussing them afterward. Each visit provides them with an opportunity to discuss faith (and non-faith) in a positive way.
Kate once visited the church of Erik’s parents, a Baptist church where the pastor made inaccurate statements about Christianity’s origins without providing any references to where he found this information and appeared to be hostile toward other faiths.
It was a dramatic change from another church they visited which was more contemporary and catered to young adults. Erik had enjoyed this church at one time, attending it for nearly two years and playing a large role in the planning and operation of various ministries. He loved their casual nature, their decision not to speak in “Christian-ese,” and the music they sang. When he had visited this church more frequently, he thought it to be accessible for everyone, not just other Christians. Eventually, it became too conservative for his tastes and the ethos of the church became combative against non-Christians. But when he visited with Kate, he still hoped she would see it for the good it contained.
Kate was not impressed. Erik couldn’t understand it at first:
“What I considered to be the best effort of Christianity was woefully inadequate at influencing people like Kate. It was then that I began to see things through her eyes. I saw how offended she was when she was depicted as being “in the dark” and “lost.” I saw the absurdity of people who claim Christ as their Lord yet live lives of wastefulness and intolerance.”
Both of them even went to a Unitarian Universalist church. This time, they both had a positive experience. It was hard to disagree with what they were hearing — the church didn’t seem to be taking a stance on the existence of God, merely how there was a need to nourish one’s spirituality. When discussing the beauty of nature, Erik could see it through a Christian filter (nature was beautiful thanks to God). Kate could understand nature purely through the elegance of natural selection.
Not only do they visit churches, but Erik has also attended Kate’s campus atheist group’s meetings. He was surprised how, sometimes, they didn’t even discuss atheism or religion very much — they were just happy to be spending time with like-minded people.
At one group event, he saw a movie by atheist director Brian Flemming called The God Who Wasn’t There. The other students didn’t know there was a Christian in their midst. After the movie, as Kate says, Erik “dropped the C-bomb.”
But the other students weren’t offended or upset. They were curious and interested. They had a good discussion with Erik and constantly asked his opinion on certain parts of the movie. Of course, some of the skeptics were… well… skeptical of his motives. However, after speaking with him, they found out he was a Christian who had given serious thought to why he held his beliefs. He could think for himself instead of merely parroting what he had been told in a church, and they respected him for that.
Kate and Erik joke about how forcing atheists and Christians to date would bring about more peace, tolerance, and understanding. Even without the close relationship, the idea that people with such different worldviews can get along so well is an important message in itself.
One question I had for them was how they would raise children if that time ever came. While neither has a definite answer, they both feel like giving the child a broad range of religious experiences is the best way to go. Erik wants to provide the child with answers from multiple sources — what mommy believes, what daddy believes, and what others believe. Kate would prefer a more secular approach, but also understands the value of seeing the wider range of beliefs. She wants her children to know it’s okay that their parents have different beliefs. Questions are also encouraged. It won’t be easy, but it will have to be discussed, and they have time before the issue of children becomes a potential reality.
In the meantime, Erik is considering adding a bumper sticker on the car to replace Kate’s old Darwin Fish. It would read: Jesus was a liberal.
[tags]atheist, atheism, love[/tags]
Hemant,
Atheist?!?
Spiritual paths?!?
Kinds of atheism?!?
Sounds like a couple of losers. Just kidding.
I should add that Erik’s parents have encouraged Kate to talk to me (her brother), to find out how I found Christ coming out of a “heathen” family. I’m still waiting for that conversation…
As usual, Aj’s being a nasty, bitter person…
Hemant, thanks for posting this!
It’s kinda weird to see it all written out. February will mark out two years together for us. Erik’s currently at an emergent Christian church and I’ve settled into the local Unitarian congregation (learning that I can now hyphenate myself as a UU-atheist-humanist). Of course we both still regularly read this blog and still each have our copies of your book that brought us closer together and inspired us to go on our own church hopping excursion. We look forward to another year of making atheists and Christians drop their jaws as we introduce ourselves as a weird interfaith couple. 
Erik and I both wish you the best for 2008!
AJ — You raise some good points. I changed a couple things to make it more clear.
“Her religious views” — I changed that to “views on religion” to avoid any confusion.
“spiritual paths” — I made it “religious or (non-religious)”… it’s a bit more wordy, but hopefully more accurate.
“different kind of atheist” — yep. I know plenty of “angry” atheists, non-angry atheists who are still passionate about it, atheists who just don’t care about religion, etc.
Well, all I can say is good luck. I am an atheist, and I dated a christian for about nine months, and it was the biggest mistake of my life. He would frequently make comments about how wrong I was, and try to get me to become a Christian. And when he had given up on that, he was constantly treating me with disdain, thinking that I was being the bad guy – that because I didn’t believe, I would go to hell, and then it would be his fault that I wasn’t saved. He ultimately broke up with me because he couldn’t have a longer relationship with someone he knew wasn’t religious, because he knew they were damned. I always tried to be accepting of his beliefs, I never argued with him, and I even offered to go to church with him. It seems you’re lucky that it’s more of your boyfriends parents that exhibit this behavior instead of him, but you’ll need the luck. I can’t imagine living a life where the people around me think I have committed a great crime, and that I was dooming their son to an eternity of damnation. That’s just the worst kind of hatred right there. So…good luck.
Interesting. I really want to go back to my pre-2004 or 2005 behavior of ignoring religion and religious people. The discussions and experiences are overwhelmingly painful and depressing.
Perhaps my kids’ world will be such that they won’t feel compelled to confront it. It doesn’t seem a reasonable hope that I’ll be able to go back to avoidance mode.
Congratulations Kate and Erik, and I hope your relationship continues to grow and strengthen! It’s stories like these that I think can help break down these silly walls of intolerance and misunderstanding between atheists and religious folks. I hope more people will be willing to question their own beliefs, as well as their beliefs about others who believe differently.
Hemant,
Thank you, you’re usually spot on with your language, and call people when they’re not.
Can’t let anyone think atheism is a religion, although many already have that impression, so many seem to think it’s satanism, scientism, or something else.
I’m not averse to the word spiritual, and obviously anyone can have a spiritual experience, but a frozen waterfall, meditation, or a year in a cave isn’t going to lead a rationalist to change their views on Jesus’s divinity.
Part of my objection to “a different kind of Atheist” is it seemed to me you were implying that Atheists are generally not more compassionate and understanding. Another small objection is that Atheism as a lack of belief in god is a tiny thing that doesn’t imply much or define a person apart from separating them from large group of people who do. The larger part is that those things do not have anything to do with Atheism at all.
Kate,
That seems uncalled for… and hypocritical.
Kate and Erik,
I hope everything works out as well for you as it is for me and my wife, who is Christian. We butt heads sometimes (what couple doesn’t), but now 6 years on, we’re happier, stronger, and more in love than ever!
It sounds to me, from your story, that you two have the same kind of relationship that we do.
Joe M and Susan – thank you for your good wishes!! I can only hope that our relationship develops as yours has, Joe.
Aj – I was going to post a snarky comment in response but what the hell, Happy New Years.
Best wishes!
Whenever I’m confronted with a practicing Christian, complete with virgin birth and resurrection beliefs, I always have the same reaction. I’ve met plenty of kind and intelligent Christians, but I can never escape the opinion that they’re severely deluded. I’m consistently stupefied when I hear these individuals articulate their belief in these insane things. It’s like hearing someone talk about unicorns or the like. I don’t think I can ever fully respect someone if I was constantly reminded of their faith.
What a beautiful and truly inspiring story.
It seems that far too often, when we are entrenched in these battles of ideology, we lose sight of what really matters.
I dated a Lutheran girl for over two years, while I was still Mormon, and the religion was eventually the cause of our downfall. In the end, we were not able to see past all the differences to see the love we shared. As an atheist now, I’m sure we’d be even worse off now.
Best of luck to you both.
AJ is apparently completely blind to the beauty of the story. That, or just wants/needs attention. Here’s some more attention, buddy – don’t capitalize “atheist” or “atheism.” You shouldn’t need me to tell you why.
Kate’s brother:
If there truly is an all-knowing and benevolent father figure somewhere out there, I cannot help but think that he would be in strong favor of love and acceptance, especially in the face of such turmoil caused by well-meaning but destructive people. The Christ I was taught about as a boy spent most of his time with the worst of the sinners, and through his example and love, inspired them. Christ never condemned, nor slandered, nor ‘tried to save’ anyone. His overwhelming love was enough. Emulate this. If the common Christian god does exist, he works through love, and time. Judge ye not, or you are no better than the Pharisees.
I hope you both have a fantastic year!
It seems like they would be a good couple to appera on the talk show circuit.and what is the deal with Kate’s brother?
I agree! Best of luck to both Kate and Eric. If the “kid question” ever does come up, several friends I have sent their kids to Unitarian classes where they learned about all religions (and that it’s okay not to believe) and let them make up their own minds. It seems to have worked really well. I hope things work out for you. As for Eric’s parents, I hope they come around or it seems like they could really miss out.
I would like to hear how Erik is handling his relationship with his parents lately. The only detail I read was that at one time he stopped talking to them. Does he have to directly defy them? Does he conceal his relationship from them? Are his age or economic dependency factors in how much pressure they can bring to bear on him? This part of the story sounds like it has at least as much potential for pain for him as what Kate has gone through.
To Kate’s brother:
Please listen to the gentle words of Michael. For you to start your first comment with a sarcastic crack suggests there may be a good reason that she has not come to you to talk about this. Saying “just kidding” does not take away the sting of a slap in the face. This is not a matter to be “kidding” about.
Kate is your sister. Soon enough she may be the only family you have left. Treat her with respect, love and empathy regardless of her views.
I am a new poster on this site and this is a difficult topic. I will try and make my comments as sensitive as possible.
How does Erik reconcile the fact that the Christian Bible specifically says that Christians should not join themselves with unbelievers (Second Corinthians 6:14)? A Christian is defined as someone who follows the teachings of Christ. The Bible is generally considered the authority on the teachings of Christ. Is he a Christian or isn’t he?
I am an atheist myself so I don’t ask because I agree with the Bible. I ask because it addresses what I see as the fundamental problem between atheist and Christian relationships. How does the Christian party reconcile their belief without becoming hypocritical?
Please understand that I do not mean to be unkind. I simply have a very difficult time imagining how this scenario could be successful. Discussion might help me out here. Changing my mind would certainly broaden my miniscule dating pool.
Hemant, thank you for this wonderful story. When I want people to see the essence of what you are trying to do, I will refer them to this post.
While the story as a whole was a nice example of people overcoming prejudices, this part disturbed me. I don’t think it’s rude to respectfully disagree, and it seems odd to me that silence in the face of ignorance is considered polite, rather than a way of dismissing the speaker as incapable of learning or growing. I’m not saying Kate should have spoken up right then, it may not have been the best time, but it does bother me anytime someone equates politeness with silence when confronted with ignorance.
Kate and Erik, you are both very lucky to have found each other, as I am sure you already know…
Awwwww, it’s always good to hear of another “weird interfaith couple”!
Kate, best of luck and a world of happiness to you and Erik. My Christian husband and I have been together for 15 years now, married for 12, and have two children together. It can be done, and done happily! I’m sorry that his parents have not been reacting well, and hope they come to terms with your relationship.
Congrats Kate! I’m a Christian chick who’s been married to my atheist man for 10 years and it’s been all good. Just remember that those who look at your relationship and can’t imagine how it will work are revealing nothing but their own lack of imagination.
That’s getting sort of close to a no true scotsman kind of thing.
It’s generally a more fundamentalist protestant view that argues the bible is a divine and literal rulebook and unless you’re going to argue many major denominations aren’t Christian (which is also a fairly common fundamentalist view!) then you might look into textual criticism and more liberal christian scholarship concerning the bible ( I think religioustolerance.org has some good info). You may think it’s as half-assed as any other view of the bible but it should help answer your questions.
I agree with Richard; I am curious what the current relationship is between Erik and his parents.
I am not sure I understand why this is a terrible question. There would be times it would be rude to ask, I suppose, but if someone expresses to me that they think certain Biblical events are literal retellings of actual events, I would ask if they truely believed that. Come on, now, how could anyone believe that the some of the stuff in there is real? There are educated Christians, yes, and many of them know plenty about their religion, but I have never heard a sane, rational person think that the Bible is a literal retelling of only literal, true events.
Me, either. As long as it is a real question, and it isn’t phrased as “do you really believe that pile of crap” or said with the equivalent intonation, why is it a problem?
I have. Furthermore, the person who thinks that is an educated, intelligent woman and a good friend, whose common sense and good judgement I value in every area outside that of religion.
People will never cease to amaze me.
Advice for atheists dating Christians: Or, what I wish I knew.
1. Don’t be a bitch. No matter how much what they believe stuns you, shocks you, disgusts you, or pisses you off, count to 10, and give them the benefit of the doubt that there is a reason they believe what they do.
2. Think about your own beliefs; why are you an atheist? How sound is your own philosophical foundation? How thoroughly have you *really* investigated things? Even though atheism inherently makes sense, imagine if you were brought up differently. Even if you were brought up in a Christian household, maybe your understanding of Christianity is just plain wrong. Mine was (is).
3. Don’t change for the other person. Similarly, don’t expect them to change for you. How does this promote harmony? I don’t know, ask Kate and Eric. All that matters is that the respect is present and mutual, and that views are changed not for a person, but for the merit of the views. It is your responsibility to learn all you can about religion; you might even find a branch of Christianity more acceptable to you than the one they currently follow (ie- convert your Evangelical to Catholicism). I do believe it is possible for an atheist to legitimately become a Christian, as it is for a Christian to legitimately become an atheist. Exception: Don’t date Creationists, unless they *are* willing to change for you. No one loves a nut job. Some Mormons fit this exception as well. You be the judge, date at your discretion, and at your own risk.
If you do fall in love with them:
1. If you’re the kind of person who can’t deal with heartache, I’d recommend against it; it’s probably not going to work, and it just sort of sucks.
2. But if you do, think about what you really want in the long term. If you’re considering marrying them, are you willing to raise your kids Christian? It’s probably a lot more important to them than it is to you, although that’s starting to change. As atheists, we would largely be ashamed to raise religious kids. To ease this burden, find some brand of Christianity that either a) makes sense and is tolerable, or b) doesn’t make any sense at all, and the child will rebel against it as soon as they are old enough.
3. If you love them, but seriously can’t deal with a religious spouse or future, think about what it will feel like in five or ten years after they’re gone. Do you look forward to marrying a (sane!) atheist, who loves you and treats you right and shares your views on one of the most defining characteristics of your Self? Or will you regret it? Will you miss the Christian when he or she leaves your life? Are they truly one of a kind? Not the “I loved you but there are other fish in the sea” type of love. Not the “I’m not ever going to find anyone willing to date me again” type of love. But the truest sort of love imaginable. If this is the case, well, weigh that against their religion.
4. We seem to weigh, today, truth more than happiness. This is one of the most defining characteristics of atheists today: we gladly give up the wonderful notion that there is a God, and he loves us, because we cannot know it to be true. Which matters to you? Are they necessarily contradicting? We are often materialists, often determinists. We are freethinkers, and often arrived at atheism by following the natural course of our own minds, despite the religious ideas floating around us. But be warned: atheism, materialism, and determinism are comforting notions too. You must question them. If you fall in love with a theist, maybe it will last, maybe it won’t. But it is up to you to at least get the most out of the experience; challenge their ideas, but also, challenge your own.
Good luck, and Happy New Year.
Great story, Hemant!
and thanks to Kate and Erik for sharing their story. Best wishes to you both!
He was also a polemicist. The best one.
Advice for atheists dating Christians: Or, what I wish I knew.
1. Don’t be a b*tch. No matter how much what they believe stuns you, shocks you, disgusts you, or pisses you off, count to 10, take a breath, and give them the benefit of the doubt that there is a reason they believe what they do.
2. Think about your own beliefs; why are you an atheist? How sound is your own philosophical foundation? How thoroughly have you *really* investigated things? Even though atheism inherently makes sense, imagine if you were brought up differently. Even if you were brought up in a Christian household, maybe your understanding of Christianity is just plain wrong. Mine was (is).
3. Don’t change for the other person. Similarly, don’t expect them to change for you. How does this promote harmony? I don’t know, ask Kate and Eric. All that matters is that the respect is present and mutual, and that views are changed not for a person, but for the merit of the views. It is your responsibility to learn all you can about religion; you might even find a branch of Christianity more acceptable to you than the one they currently follow (ie- convert your Evangelical to Catholicism). I do believe it is possible for an atheist to legitimately become a Christian, as it is for a Christian to legitimately become an atheist. Exception: Don’t date Creationists, unless they *are* willing to change for you. No one loves a nut job. Some Mormons fit this exception as well. You be the judge, date at your discretion, and at your own risk.
If you do fall in love with them:
1. If you’re the kind of person who can’t deal with heartache, I’d recommend against it, it’s probably not going to work, and it just sort of sucks.
2. But if you do, think about what you really want in the long term. If you’re considering marrying them, are you willing to raise your kids Christian? It’s probably a lot more important to them than it is to you, although that’s starting to change. As atheists, we would largely be ashamed to raise religious kids. To ease this burden, find some brand of Christianity that either a) makes sense and is tolerable, or b) doesn’t make any sense at all, and the child will rebel against it as soon as they are old enough (depending on how bitter you’re willing to be. I’d go with choice “a”).
3. If you love them, but seriously can’t deal with a religious spouse or future, think about what it will feel like in five or ten years after they’re gone. Do you look forward to marrying a (sane!) atheist, who loves you and treats you right and shares your views on one of the most defining characteristics of your Self? Or will you regret it? Will you miss the Christian when he or she leaves your life? Are they truly one of a kind? Not the “I loved you but there are other fish in the sea” type of love. Not the “I’m not ever going to find anyone willing to date me again” type of love. But the truest sort of love imaginable. If this is the case, well, weigh that against their religion. Religion and atheism may seem to matter a lot right now, but one day, when you’re older and wiser, you just may regret allowing it to destroy something as rare and beautiful as Love.
4. We seem to weigh, frequently, truth more than happiness. This is one of the most defining characteristics of atheists today: we gladly give up the wonderful notion that there is a God, who loves us, because we cannot know it to be true. Of truth and happiness, which matters to you? Are they necessarily conflicting? Which can you realistically attain? We atheists are often materialists, often determinists. We are freethinkers, and often arrived at atheism by following the natural course of our own minds, despite the religious ideas floating around us. But be warned: atheism, materialism, and determinism are comforting notions too. You must question them. If you fall in love with a theist, maybe it will last, maybe it won’t. But it is up to you to at least get the most out of the experience; challenge their ideas, but also, challenge your own.
Good luck, and Happy New Year.
Wow, lots of comments!! And lots to respond to…
Just very quickly, Richard, I promise you that my brother and I are very close. He has a constant wit that makes us all groan and roll our eyes. What’s missing from his comment (and I pointed it out later to him) is his devious grin. He’s just a big joker, and there are no hard feelings between us. But I appreciate your words!
I’ll comment more later, specifically trying to answer some of the questions posed here, and Erik will post tomorrow night after he enjoys his day of New England skiing (we live in the south so we’re visiting my family right now).
Kate and Erik, good luck with your relationship. Religiously mixed relationships can work. I have been married to a Christian for about 13 years now and we have two kids (10 and 5). I am fortunate that my wife’s parents are not evangelical fundamentalists. They are mainly of the belief that everyone should belong to some kind of church but it doesn’t really matter what kind. I had my little “interview” with them early on when my wife and I were first dating. They were satisfied that I sufficiently respected religious and conservative principles (even though I was a liberal atheist). We have kind of learned not to argue about religion or politics.
We have recently joined a church at my wife’s insistence. I have found it very interesting and participate in some ministries and meet for a weekly Christian small group. I view it as probing deeper into the Christian mind and I don’t let the mindset that all atheists are tools of the devil and are going to hell bother me. I view it as simply a fascinating mind-set.
As for how to raise kids, we didn’t start going to church at all until our older child was already 8 years old. He probably missed the formative years of religious indoctrination. He basically dropped his Santa Clause and what-ever god belief he might have picked up about a year ago. Our younger child is more susceptible for the religious indoctrination and we will have to wait and see how he turns out.
Probably all a child needs, though, is one parent to be non-religious to enable the child to be able to have an open mind.
I say go for it. A mixed relationship can be a very interesting enjoyable experience where both people learn from each other… You will be living what the world at large needs to do. Find creative ways to make it work.
Kate, thank goodness you cleared that up. That’s the feeling I got when I read his comment. I was getting all geared up to defend him, but now I don’t have to. Yay!
Very cool story, my husband is an Athiest, and I was introduced to Christianity at 13, with it being forcefully taught as the way things were and that you didn’t question “God’s Teachings”. We lived together before we got married, which was another hurdle that was difficult for my parents to digest, but I think that inevetably, it was the fear of the unknown. We have been married for a year now and it has been a very rewarding and challenging experience, one I have learned immensely from. I think that what you said about “speaking appropriately”, sometimes choosing your words wisely, means to avoid arguing the truth, for some of these christians, they live life by others standards, and often being open minded, especially to the older generation, is extremely difficult to comprehend. Ultimately, I wish the best for you two, I know for us, when we have kids, we will encourage them to make their own decisions and most of all, think for themselves, not to live by “standards of others”. Your story was an encouragement.
Wow. Great story. You both sound like the kind of people we need more of.
A couple of things here throw me off:
After this, it’s said that Kate’s parents would support her no matter what she believed. And then:
I don’t think there is anything good about those intentions. Erik’s parents are trying to control Erik’s life and happiness. I mean, it’s pretty obvious he hasn’t given in to them, but still.
I’m happy to see though that the two of you are happy together and love each other despite being religious and non-religious. I don’t think I could do it, to be honest. I’ve always wondered how it would feel to know the person you love most is going to burn in hell for eternity. Sorry, I’m not trying to sound harsh but that’s essentially a big foundation of what Erik believes…isn’t it? My wife is an atheist, as am I, and I couldn’t stomach her having to live with and suffer from such a dreadful, mentally tormenting thought. Kudos to you.
These two really seemed like a couple of jerks to start with. Are we supposed to celebrate that they merely learned to become decent human beings and not insult other beliefs? I’ve been an atheist since before I even knew there was a term for it, but I’ve dated all sorts of different belief systems, from Wiccan to Mormon, Jewish to Catholic. I accepted that even if I didn’t agree with them, it was their choice, and they gave me the same respect. My closest friends in college were devout Christians. Of course, I choose not to associate with those type of assholes as in your post, regardless of what they believe. How about all the people that accept others from the start?
If they’re all this interesting (and fairly well-written), you should have longer posts more often.
If only they didn’t take me so long to write…
Yeah, they’re great. Problem is that there’s so damn few like that. Most folks have to go through a growing up process to get to such a state. That’s what this post is about. I’ll celebrate that. So there. Nyahh.
LOL. well said
JoshH,
Maybe they believe marrying an atheist is a sin that will make their son go to hell. They could get that impression from the Bible, and they’ve probably been indoctrinated to accept the premises a) God exists, b) the Bible was inspired by God. Given unjustified beliefs, people can believe terrible things with good intentions.
I suppose you miss out on a lot of great people if you limit the dating pool to those who share your belief system. But to me, that’s just sort of sad. It demonstrates how pervasive religion is. Otherwise perfectly reasonable people believe really weird stuff that makes no sense, and it’s kind of the best we can do, at the moment. I would hesitate to tell an atheist to leave a relationship like this, because the truth is the chance of finding someone compatible who happens to be an atheist is probably low. Lucky me, I did it. But love is always great, if it works, so more power to you both.
A question for Erik.
Do you believe that Kate will go to hell if she doesn’t become a Christian? If so, how does that figure into your relationship?
A question for Kate.
Do you believe in an afterlife? (yes, you could be an atheist who believes there’s “something more” without that being a god).
After reading this post, I decided to do a little experiment and asked my husband if he would still love me if I suddenly became an atheist. He thought about it for a few seconds, and said, “I don’t know.”
I kept pressuring him to think about it, and his final answer was still “I don’t know.”
Hmmm…. interesting.
…Shocking… depressing… I’m so sorry… This should be a standard test we give men when they claim to love us. If we have to conform to their system of belief, this suggests that they don’t trust our intellect enough to make choices that are different from theirs (Remember, this works both ways!). Would you still love him if his views changed?
Linda that’s terrible. Although The Hildy tells me that if I ever decide that I want to be a Jehovah’s Witness I will never see our children again. That seem fair doesn’t it?
Kate, is your bfother a convert to Christianity? How did this happen?
I wonder where this took place. That college sounds far worse than anything I’ve ever experienced. That “Happy Atheist Day” poster is pretty much gloating over the fact that the Bible is bigoted, and so are they. The “ninja evangelism” sounds pretty bad too–I would have asked to leave.
Some people will get out of this that neither side needs to change the other, but I don’t think that’s true. Both parties did change, just not the way you might expect.
Asking your man if he’d still love you if you suddenly changed your views or beliefs about religion is a fair question, but the answers may have to be more complicated than yes or no. Loving you and being comfortable living with you may be separate things for some people. Just don’t ask him “Does this make me look fat?”
Well, after a long day on the frigid ski slopes, I will attempt to answer the two basic questions it seems people have for me.
For people that have questions about how I can be “unequally yoked” and date someone who I’m supposed to believe is going to hell, remember that Christianity is an incredibly diverse religion. Evangelical conservatives always claim that their version of Christianity is the only version, and to argue that I’m not a true Christian because I don’t follow their interpretation is buying in to their misguided view. I readily admit that I don’t fit the evangelical conservative Christian mold, and I’m not really sure what mold I fit in. There are myriad views within the Christian umbrella on being “unequally yoked” as well as what hell is and who goes there. If you’re only familiar with the hard-line evangelical view, I encourage you to branch out and learn about the diversity within Christianity.
In terms of my relationship with my parents, it’s a back and forth situation. I know they really like Kate, but struggle with how to express what they believe the Bible says about evangelizing. I don’t really want to spill the family details on a website (any more than what’s above), but I have been financially independent for two years now and they don’t have any control other than emotional. That being said, I think Kate will vouch for me that I’m emotionally independent as well. I try to make the best of every situation that comes up with my family, but ultimately I will decide what is best for me based on my own criteria and not theirs.
Hemant, thanks for the the work you put in to listening to our story and writing this article. I’m glad to see it’s being put to good use! By the way, I’m an Obama supporter, too, and will be anxiously watching the caucus in Iowa tomorrow
She should have become a mental health nurse/doctor, she is obviously attracted to delusional psychotics. The bit about being a more spiritual atheist is comical. I personally think this whole thing is made up. Someone who wants everyone to get along put this little story together. “Hi, my husband and his family thinks that a zombie ghost jew speaks to him and they have conversations about evil spirits that are inside his and everyones bodies. I learned to live with this”. Talk about desperate, The reality is if they were reasonable they would stop believing in Sky-God(tm). Wow, hope this a-holes don’t have kids!
Adam, I think you’ll find your vitriol to be in the minority at this website. Notice the URL…it says F-R-I-E-N-D-L-Y atheist. You’re certainly not going to win any minds over with that hate-filled comment. While I’m not sure you’re willing to listen to reason, a couple things you said need to be addressed:
1) Taoists and Buddhists are considered atheists because they don’t believe in a god or gods, so they fit under the classification of spiritual atheists.
2) I can assure you that Kate and I are real, as is our relationship and the story. If you don’t believe me, ask Hemant, he’s spoken to us both on the phone on more than one occasion. We’re practically pals. It’s also an insult to Hemant if you think he made this up just for shits and giggles.
3) I’m the one who believes in Sky-God (TM), not Kate, and last time I checked there are no evil spirits in me (unless you count tequila as an evil spirit, in which case I did have an evil spirit in me on New Year’s Eve).
4) Thankfully we live in a free country where “this a-holes” can have kids if they want to and raise them as they see fit. And we can vote! Oh the horror of freedom and liberty!!!
Erik,
Thanks for noticing that we aren’t all like Adam Hall. Thanks for answering him with lightness and grace, it expresses well, I think, why you get along so well with your gal.
Sorry your parents are kind of jerks about this. Actually, sorry society is kind of jerkish about this stuff. You seem to have the right makeup to get past that… good for you!
What an interesting post!
Erik-I am a follower of Jesus Christ and I was just wondering what your thoughts are on 2 Corinthians 6:14 which states that a believer should not be yoked with one who does not believe.
This is crazy. This was like reading my life story. I am an atheist and my girlfriend is christian. The way the parents acted was very simaler to my situation. But, like the article says, “If an interfaith relationship with two passionate people is going to work, they say, you can’t be under the delusion that you will change your partner. Not when it comes to faith.”
This is a realization that took six years for my girlfriend and I to figure out.
Working my way backwards in the comments…
CHRIS – Oh wow, I’d love to talk to you about your relationship!! Glad to see that others are on the same path.
It helps!
AnneMarie – When I first read that passage, I burst into tears. It was only after Erik and I (mostly him, actually) researched the history behind Paul’s words that we realized how it needs to be interpreted. As in, Paul was speaking to a specific audience (Christians in Corinth) about a specific “type” of non-Christians. Also, Erik doesn’t take the Bible to be the absolute literal word of God, so it’s not a command.
Miller – I won’t reveal WHICH undergrad I went to
since I do love my alma mater, but let’s just say it was a state school. As in, a public university. Which made it all the more shameful for the banner to be hung. It actually got approval!!!
grazatt – My brother is a Quaker. Interesting story, actually. A high school project inspired him to explore various faiths. He visited a Sikh church, a Circle of Friends meeting, a Catholic church, an Episcopalian church, a Greek Orthodox Church, a Jewish temple, and an Islamic worship service. For each religious group he went to a worship service and spent a day doing community service with/for the group. He even did the entire month of Ramadan. Read the Bible, Qur’an, and other religious texts. He really liked the Quakers and still attends meetings in Boston.
Linda – the question you asked your husband is an interesting one. I think it’s something that matching-faith couples take for granted – that beliefs will never change. And if they do…well, what happens then?! Would the other person still love the one who changed? In a way, the “cons” of having an interfaith relationship are balanced by a pro – any change in belief with Erik and I really couldn’t ruin us. We already love each other with differing beliefs, so if there’s a change, it could be in a direction that would make us the same, and if there’s no change, oh well.
Bart – do I believe in an afterlife? Hmm, good question. Following my skeptic tendencies that led me down this atheist path…I’d have to say “I’m not sure”. There’s no way to tell. It doesn’t seem very logical, but I have no proof to say otherwise. I’m not quite sure we know all there is to know about consciousness, etc. So, I’m not sure yet. Guess I’ll find out someday!
Jeff – thanks for the encouragement! Again, it’s good to know that others have made this work.
[...] Remember Kate and Erik? [...]
I am a Christian and I am very happy for you guys! I dated a guy when I was in highschool that was a very serious atheist and it was hard and we did not make it to marriage sadly even though we were engaged. I want to commend the two of you because it takes so much dedication and backing from both sides and I remember people treating me differently when they learned that my fiance was an atheist and how people just acted like it was horrible. How many people would ostracize the guy that I loved because he was not their ideal and I still love him very much and always will. I am happy for an interfaith couple who makes it in today’s society when people do not take the time to realise that love goes beyond creed. May you both be richly blessed! Thanks for reminding me of the love of my life!
Would anyone know of any website links of some kind that might have similar stories (athiest and christian relationships) – I,
and at a guess a good few other people out there would love to know about it – if anything like that exists on the web…..?
reading alot of this post has been
enlightening and refreshing – thanks!
Well…This story was extremely inspiring. I wish I would have read this entry a long time ago. My name is Anthony and I am an atheist however my girlfriend Amanda is christian.
I would like to leave a slight story of my own but it will be shorter then the one that was written. If anyone cares to read please feel free to ask me any question or offer any opinions and send to my email. Avan617@yahoo.com
I was raised in a fairly non-religious home. My mother and father do believe in the existence of god, and have always said thing that have referred to the existence of heaven or god.
Throughout my childhood I had said thing like “yes I believe in god!” just because I thought it was what you were suppose to say. As I got older the answer to those questions became more and more complex and vague. I became very interested in things like science, biology and the reason for life. I NEEDED PROOF. The quest of proof had lead me down a path of atheism.
For years I hid the truth of my beliefs (or lack there-of) from my parents and family, in fear that I wouldn’t be accepted. The only comfort that I had on the subject was my best friend Mike.(who also was an atheist)
Talking with my friend Mike was the best way to understand why I felt the way I did. He never bashed Christianity or any other religion or belief for that matter. So I became very comfortable and confident in what I believed.
Around 15 years old I was faced with my first challenge. I was presented with the gift of being my nieces god father by my older sister. For days it racked my brain on how that would work being atheist. I even went to the little practice run that you do before the actual baptism.
Many things crossed my mind. Was I lying to myself accepting this gift under the eyes of god with no faith? Was I lying to my sister? I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want my sister to change her mind if I told her, and I didn’t want my family to think any differently of me.
The night before the baptism I sat in my room crying fearing what I should do. I gathered all the courage I could and gathered my family in the kitchen. (My mother,father, older sister and younger sister)I hesitated for a moment and said “I need to tell everyone something.” After a few more seconds of hesitation I blurted out: “I don’t believe in god.” And the first response I received was from my older sister who stated “thank god, I thought you were going to say you were gay!” And of course I laughed, along with the rest of the family.
After that, the family was very accepting, understanding and even curious about it. Now I knew it was OK to be… well, ME!
I am now 24 years old and have had my share of “Your going to hell.” or “Let me teach you about god.” etc. I found myself telling people that I was atheist right away so they could go ahead and decide whether or not they were going to talk to me.
July 19th of 2008 I met Amanda. I had actually met her in a chat room. I showed her that I was interested and she expressed the same. The moment that I realized she was interested, I blurted out that I was atheist. (I have had several relationships that have ended in, “I can’t stay with you because you don’t believe in god.”)I wanted to let her know right away so that there was no surprise later. She continued her interest in me.
Soon after, we began dating each other. We have had our hours of religion conversations almost trying to contradict every thing each other has said. But I can say it always came down to one thing in the end… I love her and she loves me.
Well today religion came into conversation, and we started discussing how it would work if we decided to get married. That is how I came across this wonderful story. I literally googled “Atheist and Christian wedding.” I have still yet to find any suggestions that would be a good medium for her and I. Something that we can both relate to, but will still not stray too far from either of our beliefs.
So please, any Ideas please feel free to contact me. I’m sure there is going to be some jerk out there that will read this and send something offensive but that’s OK. I already forgive you.
If you made it this far, Thank you for reading.
Anthony
Avan617@yahoo.com
P.s. I saw an article that I didnt even bother reading that said “why should atheists have christians rights, like marriage?” I would LOVE to meet the person who had that audacity to write that question.
My response is: “Marriage is the right of two people who love each other.”
I loved this…I have been married to my Atheist for almost 11-years. I am a Christian…it’s been the most interesting, tough and rewarding relationship of my life. We have two children and we love each other fiercly. Well done Kate and Erik. I hope after the posting of this…since it was so long ago…that the two of you are still doing well.
My daughter is a Christian (non denominational)as am I. She is 16 and her and her atheist boyfriend are pretty serious about their future together.
I just wanted to say that it is not just Christian parents who are intolerant and rude.
I have accepted this boy, never with judgment..with open arms. I do not preach to him and never will (unless he sincerely asks). Belonging to Christ is a personal decision. Yes, I have struggled with them not being “equally yoked” and have cautioned my daughter on the heartbreak that will come (and I believe it will-in one degree or another)..however, I cannot choose my daughters mate or make her decisions for her.
Having said that, I love this boy. He is a decent boy. And…he his good to my girl.
My daughter is very firm in her Christian faith. I actually do not force church on my kids and I expose my kids to various religions. They are fascinated by other beliefs (and VERY educated in them, including Atheism/evolution) , but firm in their own.
In this situation, I accept and love her boyfriend…whereas his dad found out I was a Christian via my myspace page…within days, the boy was forbidden from coming into my home, citing that I was a bad Mother because of my Christian beliefs and I should be boarded off to a mental institution for believing in God.
What is really interesting is that, I allowed my daughter to go to his home for a year (1-2 times a week), knowing that she was entering a strongly atheist home.
So, just wanted to point out that religious bigotry should not be blamed on fundamental Christianity exclusively.
By the way, I am a preachers kid and a preachers grandkid and a Guatemalan missionary grandkid.
Peace
Hi Marcia,
Yes, you are right. Bitter, bigoted people come in all brands, just as open-hearted, fair-minded people come in all brands. I guess all we can do is to encourage those of our own respective brands to practice the virtues they think are lacking in their rivals, and maybe they’ll begin to notice that their rivals often have those virtues too.
It is a credit to the atheist boy that he has not absorbed his father’s intolerance, and a credit to you and your daughter that you have not reciprocated with similar prejudice. Life is tough enough for young couples without having to deal with Capulet-Montague hatreds tearing them apart. But whatever becomes of your daughter’s and the boy’s relationship may have not as much to do with their spiritual differences as simply being so very young. Even more well matched people tend to grow in different directions when starting so early. Whether together or parted, I hope they retain their open and accepting natures.
Inspiring story, congrats to the two of you!
I have some questions to those Christians out there dating or in wedlock with atheists (or have other religious beliefs entering the picture).
My question is: Does it ever get lonely?
I am a Christian myself, my boyfriend is a Gnostic. We love each other very much, but I have some serious fears about continuing in our relationship. I don’t want to change him for the world, if he does it’ll be on his own accord. However, I fear that I myself might get a problem eventually if I start connecting more to my Christian friends and family than I do to him. It’s not a hobby, it’s a lifestyle after all. When I’d need a partner who could share with me and help guide me in my life through the word I believe in, then I’ll not have that option.
I am a very sensitive girl, I’ll struggle if I gotta have an ongoing mental tugging and turmoil, I got to look out for myself. And I just dread the many times when I’d wish I could talk over something really deep in the perspective of how God sees it, and just not have the opportunity. Does this make sense?
Ps: A big thank for opening such a warm and friendly site, it is so nice to know there are friendly Atheists too! Afraid the judgmental experiences go both way, had so many hurtful insults comments through the years.
Yes, it can be lonely because I trust my feelings. My husband is a very logical person, and that is probably where we butt heads most…when I don’t feel heard or understood. However I do know he is not going to ‘understand’ per say, because he doesn’t buy it. He believes what he believes (or rather, he ‘knows’
)
I have had to re-learn much of my approach and expectations in relationships. However I excpect that even in relationships where both parties believe the same things…this is probably normal.
I have found though that I can discuss things deep and personal w/ him…I just had to change my expectation of how the conversation might go, or what he would say. I had to get over my fear of his rejection. It’s not always an easy thing mind you….but I have learned he LOVES me and wants to talk about these things w/ me. I may not get all the spirutal goosebumps as I had w/ people I dated in the past….but that is okay too. Those moments are personal and I have and am continuing to learn to be okay with them just being mine.
That being said…if you really think you could not foresee a happy future w/ this person, I wouldn’t cont. w/ the relationship. I could see a happy future…even if it was hard work….trust your guts.
That is a big bold statement to make and rather than making it about beliefs…make sure you aren’t seeing other red-flags leading your heart and mind to such a struggle. Sometimes someone is jut not the right person for you and it has nothing to do w/ any personal belief system.
Hey Erin S
Thank you so much for your reply. I think you hit the nail when you mention the fear of rejection. I struggle to see how he could possibly wish to discuss and talk deeply and exploratively about these things with me, even though he says he does. I just fear that we will come to a point where there will be a very clear cleft between us.
And what about the day when we get older, and I have to get up every day with my faith that he will not be there with me after this life.
I can see why that will never be an issue for him because he doesn’t see anything after death. But I do.
I think… I probably know the answer to this already, but it’s just very good to get input and hear others experiences. And I am very glad that you two are doing so well, it’s definitely encouraging! At least I know my boyfriend wouldn’t break up with me just cause I changed my beliefs or views, many Christian guys don’t think like that.
I am an atheist and my boyfriend is a Christian. We have been struggling with this a lot lately. His problem is not accepting my beliefs (or non-beliefs), it’s that there’s a huge part of his life that he feels he can’t share with me. I don’t know how to make him realize that he CAN share it. I’ve tried to get involved with things he does that are church-related, we’ve had several conversations where we try to explain to each other exactly what we believe… (which is difficult because I’m not completely certain what it is I believe) everything short of sitting in church and listening to a sermon! I just feel like he’s not really listening to me. Like he doesn’t respect me. He’s said that deep in his heart, he hopes I’ll see the love of God and change, but that offends me more than he can imagine. We love each other, but can we really work through this if he’s not willing to even try? Is there something I can say to him that will help?
I love and respect his faith. It makes him who he is! I’m just frustrated and tired of convincing myself that this will work.
Jainy,
I suggest that you show your boyfriend what you have written here. You have expressed it all very well. Wherever your relationship goes, the essential thing is that both of you must be true to yourselves, and respect that the other must be true to themselves as well. Only then would you have any chance to be true to each other.
But if even then, the differences cannot be reconciled, the gaps cannot be bridged, then because of that same truthfulness you will both know that you were both honorable and fair with each other, that neither was false or insincere. From that, both of you can move on, and heal, and in time find partners who are more fitting. Even though you did not end up together, you both will be better off for having been together for a while.
The Star-Crossed Lovers is the oldest tale. It has been lived and told, lived and re-told over and over for hundreds of centuries. We never tire of telling it, never tire of hearing it, but we never seem to learn from it. We keep on living it, one more time. Young people seem helpless in their love. Their hearts and heads do not connect. They would not have any hope for other couples in just such a predicament, but they cling to their own dreams of somehow, somehow, somehow…
Their love is beautiful in its foolishness, whether it is the blithe ignorance or the stubborn defiance of the unlikeliness of what they desire. Such sad beauty is the stuff of poems and songs. I praise and thank all foolish lovers, whether they stay together or not, for their quintessential humanity.
Thank you for sharing Jainy, and thank you Richard for that grain of truth that made my day. If nothing else but for it’s poetic beauty and truth =)
I have been giving this some thought now.
To have a faith, any faith, is like being in a room. And to take on a new faith is like stepping through a door and standing in a different room. If you are two people with different beliefs you are essentially standing in two different rooms. No matter how much you talk about, explain or try to share it from each side of the door, you cannot see the other room, and you can’t be together in that place unless one goes one way or the other.
So the question is: Are you happy about living in separate rooms in this area of your life? It’s not a “talking area”, it’s an “I’m either okey with this or not”. I’m not okey with it, because I love my new room, but I can’t share it with the one I love the most. And it is incredibly lonely. It makes me sad, heavy of heart, and it surely affects him when I am this way.
Jainy, you seem to be okey with it, as is my boyfriend. You are wonderful for being so open and loving about it, trying to make it easier for him. What I realize though is that no matter how much my boyfriend appreciate and respect me, there is just no way he’ll be able to stand with me in this beautiful room, and experience what I experience. What I don’t understand though, is why he is fine with me not sharing his place. It could be the impact that this life has on me, I don’t know, but it’s difficult for sure.
I can’t know what it’s like to be an atheist until I’ve lived it. You can understand on an intellectual level and respect and appreciate it, but you can’t live it. Living a christian life is such a life directing lifestyle. I foresee many hard conflicts for the both me and you.
I am fine with close friends being Atheists or Gnostics, I think most of mine are! But when it comes to someone so close, so intimate, the one to share my everything with. It just meets that wall hard.