Comments on: This is the Best We Could Produce? http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/ Atheism with Positivity Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:52:58 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Becky Robinson http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79874 Becky Robinson Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:36:21 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79874 @ Polly: As a woman who does not want children, I have spoken to several doctors about getting my tubes tied. They all said I had to be 35 or already have two kids. It's not such a simple solution, as it would seem. I'm sure I could find some sketchy doctor to do it while I am in my 20's, but . . . @ Polly:

As a woman who does not want children, I have spoken to several doctors about getting my tubes tied. They all said I had to be 35 or already have two kids. It’s not such a simple solution, as it would seem. I’m sure I could find some sketchy doctor to do it while I am in my 20’s, but . . .

]]> By: jp http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79867 jp Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:58:35 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79867 Hemant, check out the uncritical ovations this man gets in the Indian media: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bobby_Jindals_win_Village_joy_doubles_on_Dussehra/articleshow/2479464.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Readerspeak_Bobby_Jindal_has_made_us_proud/articleshow/2478355.cms I'd rather think of you as a better role model for desis abroad. At least you're reality-based. cheers Hemant,

check out the uncritical ovations this man gets in the Indian media:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bobby_Jindals_win_Village_joy_doubles_on_Dussehra/articleshow/2479464.cms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Readerspeak_Bobby_Jindal_has_made_us_proud/articleshow/2478355.cms

I’d rather think of you as a better role model for desis abroad. At least you’re reality-based.

cheers

]]> By: Mriana http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79623 Mriana Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:10:15 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79623 Yes and if you get down to it, this is what Spong's god is. You can see this just by listening to him, reading his books, his talk about science, and then his use of the Hebrew word "ruach" or wind. He's not talking about a personal anthropomorphic god, but rather an impersonal one that is part of nature. He is very humanistic with his homilies too, but his use of the word god is non-realism, which is also seen with Cupitt and others in the Sea of Faith. Cupitt calls it "Love" also, which is another form of the god of nature from what I can tell, for love come natural to most humans. Even I used both secular and non-realism ideas when I wrote a paper last week about the word 'numinous'. Then as a little added touch I went used a god of nature via the Gospel of Thomas sayings 3 and 77. None of it involved the use of the traditional God concept and I intentionally avoided that concept to make a point about the word 'numinous'. These so called "religious" words I truly believe can be redefined in a manner that is not traditionally religious and I also believe that is where science will lead a lot of people in the future. We will have to redefine these words eventually or form a new vocabulary entirely. Yes and if you get down to it, this is what Spong’s god is. You can see this just by listening to him, reading his books, his talk about science, and then his use of the Hebrew word “ruach” or wind. He’s not talking about a personal anthropomorphic god, but rather an impersonal one that is part of nature. He is very humanistic with his homilies too, but his use of the word god is non-realism, which is also seen with Cupitt and others in the Sea of Faith. Cupitt calls it “Love” also, which is another form of the god of nature from what I can tell, for love come natural to most humans.

Even I used both secular and non-realism ideas when I wrote a paper last week about the word ‘numinous’. Then as a little added touch I went used a god of nature via the Gospel of Thomas sayings 3 and 77. None of it involved the use of the traditional God concept and I intentionally avoided that concept to make a point about the word ‘numinous’. These so called “religious” words I truly believe can be redefined in a manner that is not traditionally religious and I also believe that is where science will lead a lot of people in the future. We will have to redefine these words eventually or form a new vocabulary entirely.

]]> By: Darryl http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79621 Darryl Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:56:46 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79621 <blockquote>I think that god concept science would lead to, if it did, would be a god of nature, not the traditional God concept</blockquote> Good point Mriana. I've raised this point with Mike C. myself. There is a gap between the impersonal god of nature and the personal God of the Bible, for example. Theistic arguments, and that's what this is, pertain only to the former. No less a great theologian and thinker than Albert Schweitzer found this distinction necessary in the development of his theology. For him, the ethically random and pointless destruction, suffering, and death of the natural world is irreconcilable with the loving God of Christianity.

I think that god concept science would lead to, if it did, would be a god of nature, not the traditional God concept

Good point Mriana. I’ve raised this point with Mike C. myself. There is a gap between the impersonal god of nature and the personal God of the Bible, for example. Theistic arguments, and that’s what this is, pertain only to the former. No less a great theologian and thinker than Albert Schweitzer found this distinction necessary in the development of his theology. For him, the ethically random and pointless destruction, suffering, and death of the natural world is irreconcilable with the loving God of Christianity.

]]> By: Mriana http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79597 Mriana Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:18:05 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79597 Ash, I wasn't suggesting that humans get spaded or neutered just to prevent surgery. I was just saying it would without a doubt be 100%. However, it was a neccessary surgery for my mother. Ash, I wasn’t suggesting that humans get spaded or neutered just to prevent surgery. I was just saying it would without a doubt be 100%. However, it was a neccessary surgery for my mother.

]]> By: ash http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79591 ash Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:06:06 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79591 ok, life of abstinence or major (and possibly unnecessary) surgery, complete with all attached problems (ie cost, risk during, possible complications after, likelihood of early osteoporosis etc). i'm not liking my options here. perhaps, if i would otherwise be forced to carry a child to term, i should be able to insist on mandatory removal of the testicles of any current or potential partner at any time? i love the ability of facetiousness to make a dull point interesting... ok, life of abstinence or major (and possibly unnecessary) surgery, complete with all attached problems (ie cost, risk during, possible complications after, likelihood of early osteoporosis etc). i’m not liking my options here. perhaps, if i would otherwise be forced to carry a child to term, i should be able to insist on mandatory removal of the testicles of any current or potential partner at any time?

i love the ability of facetiousness to make a dull point interesting…

]]> By: Kate http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79590 Kate Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:03:31 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79590 <blockquote>Hemant ‘08, break the stereotype! I think it would be great, at least then we’d have a politician who actually knows something about biology.</blockquote> I was going to say the same thing!!! Come on Hemant, governor! :)

Hemant ‘08, break the stereotype! I think it would be great, at least then we’d have a politician who actually knows something about biology.

I was going to say the same thing!!! Come on Hemant, governor! :)

]]> By: Mriana http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79582 Mriana Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:28:05 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79582 Actually, what is 100% without a doubt is what I call human spading. My mother had a fibroid uterus when I was 12 and had a partial historictomy. She had no use for birth control after that. Actually, what is 100% without a doubt is what I call human spading. My mother had a fibroid uterus when I was 12 and had a partial historictomy. She had no use for birth control after that.

]]> By: Polly http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79576 Polly Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:16:41 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79576 @Mriana, One-tenth of one percent failure rate for either procedure; somehwat worse, if the man doesn't wait a few months after surgery. I suppose if the couple really wanted to be absolutely certain, they could have both, the vasectomy AND the tubal ligation. This would have to be a very risk-averse couple, indeed! We routinely risk our lives on worse odds. I don't know what the statistics are on abortion risks. @Mriana,

One-tenth of one percent failure rate for either procedure; somehwat worse, if the man doesn’t wait a few months after surgery.

I suppose if the couple really wanted to be absolutely certain, they could have both, the vasectomy AND the tubal ligation.
This would have to be a very risk-averse couple, indeed! We routinely risk our lives on worse odds.
I don’t know what the statistics are on abortion risks.

]]> By: Anatoly http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/comment-page-1/#comment-79572 Anatoly Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:01:28 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/this-is-the-best-we-could-produce/#comment-79572 Hemant '08, break the stereotype! I think it would be great, at least then we'd have a politician who actually knows something about biology. Hemant ‘08, break the stereotype! I think it would be great, at least then we’d have a politician who actually knows something about biology.

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