Comments on: Philadelphia Stands Up to Boy Scouts http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/ Atheism with Positivity Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:01:30 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Boy Scouts unfortunate link to Bigots « Bruises Colours http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-156915 Boy Scouts unfortunate link to Bigots « Bruises Colours Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:58:27 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-156915 [...] number of links this week about either gays or atheists not admitted into boy scouts.  The city of Philadelphia recently decided to charge the Boy Scouts full rent on their meeting space, since the discount [...] [...] number of links this week about either gays or atheists not admitted into boy scouts.  The city of Philadelphia recently decided to charge the Boy Scouts full rent on their meeting space, since the discount [...]

]]> By: Allison http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79498 Allison Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:44:57 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79498 I'm glad to see Philadelphia taking a strong stand against discrimination. Like Epistaxis, I really wouldn't care about the discrimination if they really, truly acted like a private group, but they don't. They get all sorts of government benefits. I have to deal with the public schools pushing the group on my sons on a yearly basis, sometimes more often than that. They have assemblies at the schools, get to send fliers home, and have announcements over the PA system, none of which is allowed of other private groups. I know a bunch of private groups doing good stuff for kids who would LOVE that sort of advertising. If they had to pay real market costs for all those times they normally get government perks, I suspect their tune would change. ETA: stogoe, the shame of it is that I think my oldest would probably love boy scouts. It's a bit early to tell wth my youngest. I’m glad to see Philadelphia taking a strong stand against discrimination. Like Epistaxis, I really wouldn’t care about the discrimination if they really, truly acted like a private group, but they don’t. They get all sorts of government benefits. I have to deal with the public schools pushing the group on my sons on a yearly basis, sometimes more often than that. They have assemblies at the schools, get to send fliers home, and have announcements over the PA system, none of which is allowed of other private groups. I know a bunch of private groups doing good stuff for kids who would LOVE that sort of advertising.

If they had to pay real market costs for all those times they normally get government perks, I suspect their tune would change.

ETA: stogoe, the shame of it is that I think my oldest would probably love boy scouts. It’s a bit early to tell wth my youngest.

]]> By: stogoe http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79465 stogoe Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:20:15 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79465 The BSA was a powerful influence in my formative years, and I wouldn't trade it for anything*. But as I've moved beyond that limited worldview, their intransigence on these issues becomes ever the more glaring. *While I wouldn't trade being a boy scout for anything, there are probably half a dozen jerkwad asshat scouts and leaders in my troop I would have traded in for better ones. But I suppose that's par for the course. The BSA was a powerful influence in my formative years, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything*. But as I’ve moved beyond that limited worldview, their intransigence on these issues becomes ever the more glaring.

*While I wouldn’t trade being a boy scout for anything, there are probably half a dozen jerkwad asshat scouts and leaders in my troop I would have traded in for better ones. But I suppose that’s par for the course.

]]> By: spazeboy » Blog Archive » The Price of Discrimination http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79439 spazeboy » Blog Archive » The Price of Discrimination Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:11:12 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79439 [...] Via the Friendly Atheist I learned about Philadelphia’s decision to charge a fair-market rent on the Boy Scouts’ headquarters in town: Cradle of Liberty [Boy Scouts] officials have said they could not renounce the scouts’ long-established policy of not opening membership to atheists or openly gay people without running afoul of their charter with the scouts’ National Council. [...] [...] Via the Friendly Atheist I learned about Philadelphia’s decision to charge a fair-market rent on the Boy Scouts’ headquarters in town: Cradle of Liberty [Boy Scouts] officials have said they could not renounce the scouts’ long-established policy of not opening membership to atheists or openly gay people without running afoul of their charter with the scouts’ National Council. [...]

]]> By: Patti Miller http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79355 Patti Miller Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:43:22 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79355 They BSA could just take the dodge that the Girl Scouts use...they're allowed to replace the word "God" in the oath with whatever they deem appropriate. The pledge begins: <i>On my honor, I will try: To serve God* and my country,<i> with a footnote: <i>* The word "God" can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one's spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word "God" with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate. <i> That means that budding atheists and agnostics like my Brownie daughter can choose their own frame of reference. "To serve all mankind and my country." "To serve the Flying Spaghetti Monster and my country." But this may be a bit too logical and considerate for the BSA. Or, the boys can just join the Spiral Scouts, which is a Pagan Scouting group, but which admits atheists with no fuss. They BSA could just take the dodge that the Girl Scouts use…they’re allowed to replace the word “God” in the oath with whatever they deem appropriate.

The pledge begins:

On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,

with a footnote:

* The word “God” can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one’s spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word “God” with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.

That means that budding atheists and agnostics like my Brownie daughter can choose their own frame of reference.

“To serve all mankind and my country.”

“To serve the Flying Spaghetti Monster and my country.”

But this may be a bit too logical and considerate for the BSA.

Or, the boys can just join the Spiral Scouts, which is a Pagan Scouting group, but which admits atheists with no fuss.

]]> By: Lou Doench http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79338 Lou Doench Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:20:29 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79338 Several years ago "The Humanist" magazine did a very in depth story on the Scouts and discrimination. One conclusion the authors came to was that the BSA was so intertwined with local and national governments, for example high level scouts getting preferential treatment in placement in the armed forces, or ties to local police departments, that their claim to be a private organization was a farce. Its too bad the BSA continues it's backwards attitudes. I was a cub scout and loved it, but once I got to Boy Scouts and entered a pretty intolerant zone (not just to gays and atheists, but any nonconformist) i dropped out quickly. Several years ago “The Humanist” magazine did a very in depth story on the Scouts and discrimination. One conclusion the authors came to was that the BSA was so intertwined with local and national governments, for example high level scouts getting preferential treatment in placement in the armed forces, or ties to local police departments, that their claim to be a private organization was a farce.

Its too bad the BSA continues it’s backwards attitudes. I was a cub scout and loved it, but once I got to Boy Scouts and entered a pretty intolerant zone (not just to gays and atheists, but any nonconformist) i dropped out quickly.

]]> By: justin http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79328 justin Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:41:52 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79328 In one of the articles covering this, I read that the Philadelphia group had previously tried to change the straights-only policy, but they were overruled by the national organization. In one of the articles covering this, I read that the Philadelphia group had previously tried to change the straights-only policy, but they were overruled by the national organization.

]]> By: Vincent http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79317 Vincent Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:11:19 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79317 This sort of thing will probably splinter the BSA. The Philadelphia group could cut off ties with BSA and make its own scouting(tm) group. I heard the problem is the Mormon Church is anti-gay and will pull its members and stop making all Mormon boys join up. $200,000 is a drop in the bucket to the amount of money the BSA gets from the Mormon church. This sort of thing will probably splinter the BSA.
The Philadelphia group could cut off ties with BSA and make its own scouting(tm) group.
I heard the problem is the Mormon Church is anti-gay and will pull its members and stop making all Mormon boys join up.
$200,000 is a drop in the bucket to the amount of money the BSA gets from the Mormon church.

]]> By: Jen http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79233 Jen Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:12:06 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79233 The BSA has such stupid policies they deserve to be punished. If they want to be homophobic, that's awesome, but I would no sooner want my tax dollars to go to them than I would the KKK. The BSA has such stupid policies they deserve to be punished. If they want to be homophobic, that’s awesome, but I would no sooner want my tax dollars to go to them than I would the KKK.

]]> By: miller http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/comment-page-1/#comment-79220 miller Mon, 22 Oct 2007 05:37:10 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/21/philadelphia-stands-up-to-boy-scouts/#comment-79220 I imagine that the boy scouts in Philadelphia can't really change the policies of the entire BSA. I imagine that the boy scouts in Philadelphia can’t really change the policies of the entire BSA.

]]>