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	<title>Comments on: 10262</title>
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	<description>Atheism with Positivity</description>
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		<title>By: Dee</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-162434</link>
		<dc:creator>Dee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 22:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-162434</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty that the figure 10^(10^262) was from a random commenter and has no relevance to the quote from the lesson plan. Obviously, 10^262 does not take pages and pages to write out in the form of 1 followed by a bunch of zeros. 

Anyway, with some googling, I found this: http://creationsafaris.com/epoi_c06.htm
Scroll down to 114 and you get the quote: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;
A single protein molecule would not be expected to happen by chance more often than once in 10^262 years on the average, and the probability that one protein might occur by random action during the entire history of the earth is less than 1 in 10^252. 
   For a minimum set of the required 239 protein molecules for the smallest theoretical life, the probability is 1 in 10^119879.  It would take 10^119841 years on the average to get a set of such proteins.  That is 10^119831 times the assumed age of the earth and is a figure with 119,831 zeroes, enough to fill sixty pages of a book this size.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I haven&#039;t read the whole thing, so I don&#039;t know what sort of assumptions Dr. James Coppedge is making. I just thought people might like to know where these guys get their numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty that the figure 10^(10^262) was from a random commenter and has no relevance to the quote from the lesson plan. Obviously, 10^262 does not take pages and pages to write out in the form of 1 followed by a bunch of zeros. </p>
<p>Anyway, with some googling, I found this: <a href="http://creationsafaris.com/epoi_c06.htm" rel="nofollow">http://creationsafaris.com/epoi_c06.htm</a><br />
Scroll down to 114 and you get the quote: </p>
<blockquote><p>
A single protein molecule would not be expected to happen by chance more often than once in 10^262 years on the average, and the probability that one protein might occur by random action during the entire history of the earth is less than 1 in 10^252.<br />
   For a minimum set of the required 239 protein molecules for the smallest theoretical life, the probability is 1 in 10^119879.  It would take 10^119841 years on the average to get a set of such proteins.  That is 10^119831 times the assumed age of the earth and is a figure with 119,831 zeroes, enough to fill sixty pages of a book this size.</p></blockquote>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read the whole thing, so I don&#8217;t know what sort of assumptions Dr. James Coppedge is making. I just thought people might like to know where these guys get their numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuomas</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-161300</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 09:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-161300</guid>
		<description>Anton, you&#039;re so funny!  I am sure nobody else wanted to tackle a troll but you made my morning ( okay, and the coffee too ) so I decided to give you a reply.

1st the bones, yeah, I can take 206 different balls and reorganize them in 206! ways. Wow, bones are actually a bit poor example, as they are not, you know, interchangeable.  It kind of lessens the wonder. &quot;The skull could have just as easily been the pelvis! It must have been designed.&quot;  Yeah, right. The exclamation mark, btw., is factorial, something we here in Finland learn in high school.

What do you mean by 1.0e206?  
1,0 * e * 206,0 = 559,97
1,0^206 = 1,0
1,0 * e^206 = 2,92 * 10^89
1,0 * 10^206 = 10^206

None of them are 206!.

40th power is impossible? Damn.  I did not know that.  Good thing no one has tried it yet, it is not good to do impossible things.

You have a really weird understanding of simple exponentiation.
10^5 = 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 = 100 000, 
NOT 10^(2^1)+(10^(2^2))+(10^(2^4)) etc. or whatever you were explaining.
You sir, would not have succeeded in a basic math test in Finnish High School. 

And yes, 10^262 is a huge number, but still it is just 1 + 262 zeroes.  If you were referring to the 10^(10^262), well then, try to learn to refer. That&#039;s all.

Good day to all,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anton, you&#8217;re so funny!  I am sure nobody else wanted to tackle a troll but you made my morning ( okay, and the coffee too ) so I decided to give you a reply.</p>
<p>1st the bones, yeah, I can take 206 different balls and reorganize them in 206! ways. Wow, bones are actually a bit poor example, as they are not, you know, interchangeable.  It kind of lessens the wonder. &#8220;The skull could have just as easily been the pelvis! It must have been designed.&#8221;  Yeah, right. The exclamation mark, btw., is factorial, something we here in Finland learn in high school.</p>
<p>What do you mean by 1.0e206?<br />
1,0 * e * 206,0 = 559,97<br />
1,0^206 = 1,0<br />
1,0 * e^206 = 2,92 * 10^89<br />
1,0 * 10^206 = 10^206</p>
<p>None of them are 206!.</p>
<p>40th power is impossible? Damn.  I did not know that.  Good thing no one has tried it yet, it is not good to do impossible things.</p>
<p>You have a really weird understanding of simple exponentiation.<br />
10^5 = 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 = 100 000,<br />
NOT 10^(2^1)+(10^(2^2))+(10^(2^4)) etc. or whatever you were explaining.<br />
You sir, would not have succeeded in a basic math test in Finnish High School. </p>
<p>And yes, 10^262 is a huge number, but still it is just 1 + 262 zeroes.  If you were referring to the 10^(10^262), well then, try to learn to refer. That&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>Good day to all,</p>
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		<title>By: Anton</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-130863</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-130863</guid>
		<description>There are 206 bones in a human body. That is 1.0e206 possible ways of aligning them. 

And by the way, so far as mathematicians are concerned, anything over the 40th power is considered impossible.

Simple Z is right, 
Guys look at the order of Growth! It is exponential, not n! This is huge #!
When the # is said to be ten to the two hundred and sixty second power, that
means that each time you will multiply 10&#039;s, not add them. The order of growth is exponential, which is the second largest order of growth in our universe. The next one is only n-factorial. 
So, according to science, first time you will have 2 zeros(10*10), second time you have 4 zeros(100*100), third time -- 16 zeroes(10000*10000), and  so on till 262th power with so many zeroes that  you can&#039;t even imagine.

If you don&#039;t believe me, Just to take your Ti-83 calculator and put in 10 to the 262 power. The memory in the calculator is lacking the capacity to calculate and display that it gives an error. Even your computer will display the number in the scientific notation. The number is very huge. Don&#039;t be fooled.

Science is on God&#039;s side, don&#039;t be deceived, my dear brothers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are 206 bones in a human body. That is 1.0e206 possible ways of aligning them. </p>
<p>And by the way, so far as mathematicians are concerned, anything over the 40th power is considered impossible.</p>
<p>Simple Z is right,<br />
Guys look at the order of Growth! It is exponential, not n! This is huge #!<br />
When the # is said to be ten to the two hundred and sixty second power, that<br />
means that each time you will multiply 10&#8217;s, not add them. The order of growth is exponential, which is the second largest order of growth in our universe. The next one is only n-factorial.<br />
So, according to science, first time you will have 2 zeros(10*10), second time you have 4 zeros(100*100), third time &#8212; 16 zeroes(10000*10000), and  so on till 262th power with so many zeroes that  you can&#8217;t even imagine.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t believe me, Just to take your Ti-83 calculator and put in 10 to the 262 power. The memory in the calculator is lacking the capacity to calculate and display that it gives an error. Even your computer will display the number in the scientific notation. The number is very huge. Don&#8217;t be fooled.</p>
<p>Science is on God&#8217;s side, don&#8217;t be deceived, my dear brothers.</p>
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		<title>By: simple Z</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-110844</link>
		<dc:creator>simple Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-110844</guid>
		<description>As some of the commentators are trying to explain, that creationist school probably got the magnitude wrong.
&lt;strong&gt;10^262 is probably only the exponent to the number they want to refer to&lt;/strong&gt;.

&lt;strong&gt;10^(10^262)&lt;/strong&gt; has 10^262 zeros which is a greater sum than the number of particles in the entire universe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As some of the commentators are trying to explain, that creationist school probably got the magnitude wrong.<br />
<strong>10^262 is probably only the exponent to the number they want to refer to</strong>.</p>
<p><strong>10^(10^262)</strong> has 10^262 zeros which is a greater sum than the number of particles in the entire universe</p>
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		<title>By: Life before death :: :: January :: 2008</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-110034</link>
		<dc:creator>Life before death :: :: January :: 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-110034</guid>
		<description>[...] Recall for instance the Christian grad students who were supposed to teach middle schoolers that 10262 is such a large number that if you attempted to write it down, you would &#8220;fill up the entire [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Recall for instance the Christian grad students who were supposed to teach middle schoolers that 10262 is such a large number that if you attempted to write it down, you would &#8220;fill up the entire [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-109608</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 19:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-109608</guid>
		<description>The main fallacy of intelligent design theory is that if the current scientific theory cannot account for some evidence, then that proves that there is a creator.  In reality, if the current scientific theory cannot account for some evidence, then the theory just needs to be changed (sometimes it needs small changes, sometimes it needs radical changes).  &lt;a href=&quot;http://religiouscomics.net/?p=49&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This link&lt;/a&gt; shows how the intelligent Design community is modifying the scientific method to suite their purposes. 

For a better articulated Intelligent design argument for the 10^262 idea, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.re-discovery.org/bpti.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this link&lt;/a&gt;.  Of course, the assumptions used to come up with these numbers are contested in the scientific community.  They also completely ignore the idea of &quot;parallel processing&quot;.  If billions of events are simultaneously happening over a long time, the odds are a lot better.  There also may be certain yet discovered &quot;self-organizing&quot; tendencies of nature (for thermodynamic reasons) that are also in play that can greatly increase the probabilities of the &quot;right&quot; proteins forming.  It is not necessary to &quot;jump to conclusions&quot; to say a supernatural deity is behind it all.   This scientific field is still young.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main fallacy of intelligent design theory is that if the current scientific theory cannot account for some evidence, then that proves that there is a creator.  In reality, if the current scientific theory cannot account for some evidence, then the theory just needs to be changed (sometimes it needs small changes, sometimes it needs radical changes).  <a href="http://religiouscomics.net/?p=49" rel="nofollow">This link</a> shows how the intelligent Design community is modifying the scientific method to suite their purposes. </p>
<p>For a better articulated Intelligent design argument for the 10^262 idea, see <a href="http://www.re-discovery.org/bpti.html" rel="nofollow">this link</a>.  Of course, the assumptions used to come up with these numbers are contested in the scientific community.  They also completely ignore the idea of &#8220;parallel processing&#8221;.  If billions of events are simultaneously happening over a long time, the odds are a lot better.  There also may be certain yet discovered &#8220;self-organizing&#8221; tendencies of nature (for thermodynamic reasons) that are also in play that can greatly increase the probabilities of the &#8220;right&#8221; proteins forming.  It is not necessary to &#8220;jump to conclusions&#8221; to say a supernatural deity is behind it all.   This scientific field is still young.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-107472</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-107472</guid>
		<description>Rafi can&#039;t even keep his creationist bullshit straight (forget about actual science). This bogus &quot;probability&quot; &quot;calculation&quot; is always presented as yielding a simple exponent like 10^262 (or whatever other large number the particular cretin recycling this chestnut has pulled out of his ass), not the crazy expression Rafi postulates.

In any case it&#039;s total nonsense with no relevance to the way evolution actually works, as explained &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB010.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here &lt;/a&gt;and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB940.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and, at greater length, &lt;a href=&quot;http://goodmath.blogspot.com/2006/03/studying-bad-probability-creation_14.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rafi can&#8217;t even keep his creationist bullshit straight (forget about actual science). This bogus &#8220;probability&#8221; &#8220;calculation&#8221; is always presented as yielding a simple exponent like 10^262 (or whatever other large number the particular cretin recycling this chestnut has pulled out of his ass), not the crazy expression Rafi postulates.</p>
<p>In any case it&#8217;s total nonsense with no relevance to the way evolution actually works, as explained <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB010.html" rel="nofollow">here </a>and <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB940.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and, at greater length, <a href="http://goodmath.blogspot.com/2006/03/studying-bad-probability-creation_14.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-107381</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-107381</guid>
		<description>Help me out here. Which is right above? 

Polly&#039;s explanation (the consensus) is what I&#039;ve always thought, too. So, what is the problem with Rafi&#039;s explanation? Is it the &quot;now, take THAT number and raise it to the 10: 10000000000^10&quot; part that is wrong? Why compound the 10s like that? Maybe my math skills are &quot;shitty&quot;; help me understand.

Google &quot;exponent calculator&quot; and use the first link to get this answer: 1.0000000000000002e+262. Is that the same as what Polly said or what Rafi said?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Help me out here. Which is right above? </p>
<p>Polly&#8217;s explanation (the consensus) is what I&#8217;ve always thought, too. So, what is the problem with Rafi&#8217;s explanation? Is it the &#8220;now, take THAT number and raise it to the 10: 10000000000^10&#8243; part that is wrong? Why compound the 10s like that? Maybe my math skills are &#8220;shitty&#8221;; help me understand.</p>
<p>Google &#8220;exponent calculator&#8221; and use the first link to get this answer: 1.0000000000000002e+262. Is that the same as what Polly said or what Rafi said?</p>
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		<title>By: Friendly Atheist &#187; France Needs Your Prayers!</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-107182</link>
		<dc:creator>Friendly Atheist &#187; France Needs Your Prayers!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-107182</guid>
		<description>[...] (Not sure who did the math for the site, but after I registered, it told me, &#8220;Every person interceding for France makes an exponential difference.&#8221; Exponential? Really?! Well, we know how good some Christians are with their exponents&#8230;) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Not sure who did the math for the site, but after I registered, it told me, &#8220;Every person interceding for France makes an exponential difference.&#8221; Exponential? Really?! Well, we know how good some Christians are with their exponents&#8230;) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Friendly Atheist &#187; Did He Think We Wouldn&#8217;t Catch Him?</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/comment-page-1/#comment-77477</link>
		<dc:creator>Friendly Atheist &#187; Did He Think We Wouldn&#8217;t Catch Him?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/16/10262/#comment-77477</guid>
		<description>[...] the same mold of minds that said writing out 10262 &#8220;would [require] fill[ing] up the entire known universe with paper,&#8221; we get another [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the same mold of minds that said writing out 10262 &#8220;would [require] fill[ing] up the entire known universe with paper,&#8221; we get another [...]</p>
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