http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-aslan22aug22,0,4674900.story

I really hope for more friendly atheists to come up to the plate; it is quite refreshing and it is indeed VERY different from what I have seen around me.

Yes, none of us have that ‘magical connection.’ I think we imagine that connection INTO other people (or, rather, project it on others) in order to give substance to a bogeyman that is really our own creation in that particular moment. I know for sure that I am guilty of this and have let that color my quest for caring. Thank you for pointing that out and lifting the fog, so to speak!

What I see around me, on the other hand, are atheists with a sort of higher-consciousness and navel-gazing myopia which I mistake to be extremely narcissistic. Please let me be wrong! I am fighting for you here! Maybe the vocalization needs another form to it, perhaps?
Maybe the ‘old’ way was “how can you be so idiotic to believe in that crap,” and now needs to mature to “this is us, so be it, here is how we are helping society.” In other words, I really want to see all these friends of mine get off of the persecution bandwagon and just plain help the World through real actions. Fine, they are atheists. I love them! Now then let’s get our heads together and box up some care packages………

Talk like this is part of the reason why there will always be a line between atheists/agnostics and religious folk; you talk about how you’ve seen some atheists in your personal experience, and you proceed to judge everyone else who is an atheist by that standard. On that same note, you seem to judge all religious folks as having the same perogative. I understand that it’s a strong tendency to lump people together when we’re talking about a group (atheists) who are trying to organize on a national level, but it’s still a logical fallacy. I’ve seen a lot of black people on the news for robbing stores, but do I discredit the NAACP? No. Because I know those few renegades don’t represent the majority of the sane population.

My point being, when a friendly atheist (to coin a phrase) says something to you, and you respond with something one of your “friends” (atheists) has said to you that you deem descriminatory, what do you expect them to say? That would be like me confronting you with something Pat Robertson has said, and asking you to justify it—atheists don’t all have some magical connection to one another in that they can “call each other off” when the going gets rough (nor do Christians, for that matter).

I see your point: atheists do not have a meeting place and can contribute in many, meaningful ways that may go unnoticed. That is a very good point and something I hope goes on. Very nice!

I did not mean so much to say that I believe atheists not to care for the welfare of society, as I firmly do believe that they do care for welfare. I just find it very hard to find evidence of “caring” going in an outward direction when all I see comes from religious groups or individuals. I really want to believe you and see atheists participating (maybe even covertly) in boxing parties and whatnot. Fantastic! I do think, however, that atheists are doing themselves a great disfavor by NOT vocalizing this aspect of their community involvement.

OK. On to the vocalization! Good grief: there seem to be hundreds of atheists around me at this very moment and (in all honesty (again, anecdotal by observation) there are!) they do not enjoy any form of oppression or judgment. Indeed, to be a non-atheist in my particular environment is to be branded a Luddite of sorts. I should think that they could get together and release a statement or put up a group that says “hey, we care about our society and here is what we are doing.” Why be so silent about giving? They certainly are not silent about the dull wits who believe in a god. MOVE the vocalization!

What I see around me, on the other hand, are atheists with a sort of higher-consciousness and navel-gazing myopia which I mistake to be extremely narcissistic. Please let me be wrong! I am fighting for you here! Maybe the vocalization needs another form to it, perhaps?
Maybe the ‘old’ way was “how can you be so idiotic to believe in that crap,” and now needs to mature to “this is us, so be it, here is how we are helping society.” In other words, I really want to see all these friends of mine get off of the persecution bandwagon and just plain help the World through real actions. Fine, they are atheists. I love them! Now then let’s get our heads together and box up some care packages………

I can only conclude that D (those who are giving back through that moral support pipeline) are the only ones concerned with the health and welfare of society and community as a whole and as lively, competitive parts.

I was with you up to this point.
First it assumes that moral support to the armed forces is the only criteria of civic support.
Theoretically, all atheists could be heavy contributors to children’s educational programs, but by the above you would deny them having any concern for the welfare of society.
Second, it assumes you would be able to tell the theological perspective of every donor.
Unfortunately, atheists don’t have a church to meet at where they can act as a group. This means they have a hard time being visible. Also, they may want to contribute by going to boxing parties (where people gather to box up care packages) but they won’t necessarily admit they are atheists there since it’s often a religious group organizing the event.
Finally, of course, there’s the issue of anecdotal evidence not being sufficient to prove anything.

Burglars will continue to beat down our doors and we must continue to fight. In my own primitive mind, I see it this way on a global level. Again, perhaps it is shame on me and my unenlightened soul.

By means of somehow wrapping this up and bringing it back around to the matter at hand (somehow! Let’s see…) I just want to emphasize the following:
A) War will continue; ignore it to your peril
B) People are stepping up to the plate to defend our neighborhood (and expand it when necessary; another real and vital aspect I neglected to mention and which should draw a boatload of ire, I suspect…)
C) The neighborhood derives its protection from B, above, and about 90% of what they can give back to the defense is moral support, and finally
D) To date, my experience has been that non-atheists, and primarily Christians, have supplied that moral support

I can only conclude that D (those who are giving back through that moral support pipeline) are the only ones concerned with the health and welfare of society and community as a whole and as lively, competitive parts.

I would love to be convinced otherwise, and as a matter of fact, am casting a net out there to see what I may be missing and where that ‘other’ support may be. Ideas?

Yes, I would love war to be outlawed. It is not going to happen.

Not as long as people continue to think like you do, it won’t.