I guess what you said about atheists “inciting or perpetrating violence, abuse or oppression” is what’s really bothering me at this point. How far will the RRS go to implement “the end of Christianity?” Time will tell, I suppose…

this was undoubtably a stunt, and as such very possibly in poor taste, but like the suffragettes, the black panthers etc., it raises the atheist profile. now the hard work of making that profile a positive one is up to the rest of us by “discussing our differences, not yelling at each other about them”

good principle that i often fail at!

Thank you for trying to clarify things here. If reasons for not defending the Challenge are what everyone needs, here they are: 1) the Challenge is highly uncivil in nature; 2) it has generated little more than large amounts of needless animosity – we should be discussing our differences, not yelling at each other about them; 3) the Bible verse on which the Challenge is based appears to have been taken completely out of context – if we don’t appreciate theists doing this, how can it be okay for us?

For the record, I support atheists speaking out about their worldview. What I don’t agree with is the method many of them are using to express themselves. If we hope to accomplish the acceptance of nonbelief, we won’t get there emphasizing extreme emotion over reason. That’s all I’m saying.

from what i’ve understood of these posts…

I’d be correct if I were saying that it was a way that atheists could communicate. And I was and am saying this. ‘Only’ need not and does not enter into it.

here Miko says that this is just one way, not necessarily ‘the’ way, and certainly not the ‘only’ way. and yes, given that it is one way of declaring oneself publicly as an atheist, which appears to be an issue for some, especially those surrounded by relgious mania and/or family, it is valid. it does not mean anyone should or has to do it, but just that it exists as an option which some appear to be grateful for. i wouldn’t, but i have no issue with those who do (except maybe the extremists, such as poo poo boy)

Saying that it shouldn’t be defended without giving a reason why isn’t a very good persuasive technique. If you aren’t defending it, you’re basically just stating that atheists shouldn’t state the fact that they’re atheists.

the second line of reasoning follows from the first, i.e., if you lambast the blasphemy challenge, please provide reasons, or it can appear that you are just criticising atheists using this option to make public their views.

i think Darryl’s accusations of ranting probably stem from the fact that Miko appeared to give you answers (it’s how it read to me) but that you seem to have misread/misinterpreted them, and made the same points over.

hope i paraphrased people right, hope i helped clear something up for you…and be aware that whilst people disagree with you in a civil manner, they’re probably not trying to upset you.

Patrick, you’re not understanding the nuance of some of these posts. You seem upset and you’re ranting a bit.

I’d really appreciate it if you could explain 1) what it is I’m “not understanding” and 2) how I’m “ranting.” As far as being upset, I won’t disagree there. You would be too if you saw what I’m seeing.

If you aren’t defending it [the Challenge], you’re basically just stating that atheists shouldn’t state the fact that they’re atheists.

It needs to be understood that what you’re implying is that the Blasphemy Challenge is the only option atheists have for making their presence known in the world community. It simply isn’t so. Take me, for instance. How did people know for six months that I was calling myself an atheist? I never accepted the Blasphemy Challenge, and I had to purchase my copy of The God Who Wasn’t There (thus making me a chicken). By your statement, you’re saying that I would have remained “in the closet” just because I didn’t defend the Challenge, and you’re saying that I would have suggested to all other atheists that they do the same. No evidence exists for any of this.

The only other way I can make this clear to you is by experiment: let anyone on this thread identify themselves to me as an atheist, without also saying that they deny something that never existed in the first place. Now, wait for me to say, “You really shouldn’t state the fact that you’re an atheist.” It won’t happen.

Saying “He who is not with the Blasphemy Challenge is against atheism” wins the award for Irrational Assertion of the Year. Funny thing, too; it sounds a lot like the Bible’s Luke 11:23…

And you’d be very correct, IF the Blasphemy Challenge represented the one and only way that atheists could communicate to the world that they were atheists. Is this what you’re saying?

I’d be correct if I were saying that it was a way that atheists could communicate. And I was and am saying this. ‘Only’ need not and does not enter into it.

Being an atheist does not really say much about character.

Very true. No argument here.

On the other hand, the atheist might simply be an a-hole.

If all who are nonbelievers finds themselves comfortable with being a-holes, that’s fine, but what of the atheist activist’s need to make some positive impact on the problems we face with theism? Do we get anywhere acting like a-holes? All I’ve seen so far are a lot of theists pointing their fingers and saying “We’re right! They are jerks! Come to our worldview, ’cause Jesus isn’t a jerk!” How many fence-sitters have we pushed over to the other side because of negative attitudes?

If you aren’t defending it, you’re basically just stating that atheists shouldn’t state the fact that they’re atheists.

And you’d be very correct, IF the Blasphemy Challenge represented the one and only way that atheists could communicate to the world that they were atheists. Is this what you’re saying?

What?

Precisely.

And of course using the fact that one person corrected one other person’s spelling in order to insult an entire group of people is the opposite of petty.

This remark is very much to my point that there is a wholesale abandonment of civility taking place within our community. I rest my case here.