I also believe an objective observer would disagree with both you and Anthony about their assertions of certainty.

There was no assertion of certainty, olvlzl, no ism, no ist. I cannot make such a statement about anything and I’m a Humanist. The statement was a bit ackward, but it said he had not met a Humanist who can say there is no god with absolute certaintly.

The Corliss Lamont angle is fairly new and I doubt I’m ever going to get past the surface of what must have been a rather interesting career in “humanism as rigid ideology” but it’s getting more interesting all the time.

Humanism comes in a lot of varieties. Lamont and Kurtz’s are only one. There is Religious/Spiritual Humanism (like Greg Epstein and Hope Humanists), the Cultural Humanism Epstein is writing a book about, and then there is Secular Humanism which, I’ll grant you, is more extreme. I do know Kurtz isn’t too fond of the Religious Humanism, but he tolerates it because there is no God belief.

Unlike AHA, CSH doesn’t have a Humanist Celebrant program, that I have found, BUT it does have CSER. AHA has one program and to become a Celebrant, you have to meet certain requirements (just like any other place). If you are looking at AHA you won’t find Paul Kurtz there, except maybe listed as a Humanist, the Humanist who drafted the Humanist Manifesto III and 2000, and a member of AHA. You’ll find him at CSH though. The Manifesto III and 2000 are stricter than I and II in that the U.U. was not involved with drafting them and all previous mention of religion or related there of was thrown out of the newer manifestos.

I believe an objective person looking at the production of all the various Kurtz related groups would see that they eventually turn into an enforcement arm of his atheist fundamentalism. I also believe an objective observer would disagree with both you and Anthony about their assertions of certainty.

If one of Kurtz’ boys hadn’t smeared me I might not have gotten started on this interesting look into the prevalent belief system and dishonest tactics of the “free thinkers”. Having known people who are genuine advocates of free thought, I know the difference when I see it.

I mean that Corliss Lamont and Paul Kurtz turned what had been a free thought group and turned it into an ideological cult. Dawkins, as the heir to the Sagan seat of celebrity in CSICOP is getting to add a few of his least favorite ideas to their Index of Prohibitited Thought.

Really? I just go to the humanist meetings because they offer free cookies.

Uhh, no I’m quite sure I’ve never met a freethinking humanist in my life who claims that God absolutely does not exist. Nor have I ever heard of one.

And you still haven’t, Anthony.

olvlzl, no ism, no ist said,

June 2, 2007 at 7:43 pm

Anthony, if you’re going to the various groups calling themselves “humanist” you’ve certainly known people under the sway of Paul Kurtz or the quite late Corliss Lamont, in that case I can’t believe this is a true statement. And the rest of your post convinces me that those are exactly the kind of folk you’re meeting with. They took over the AHA and turned it into a cult.

AHA definition of Humanism:

Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

It says without supernatualism. It does not say it does not exist or that it does exist.

Council for Secular Humanism is not too much different (and they both, AHA and CSH, use the same Humanist Manifesto):

Secular Humanism is a way of thinking and living that aims to bring out the best in people so that all people can have the best in life. Secular humanists reject supernatural and authoritarian beliefs. They affirm that we must take responsibility for our own lives and the communities and world in which we live. Secular humanism emphasizes reason and scientific inquiry, individual freedom and responsibility, human values and compassion, and the need for tolerance and cooperation.

Neither one deny or affirm there is a god, just that they reject it. BTW Paul Kurtz is with CSH.

Hope Humanist Ministries (hopehumanists.org) uses this defintion (also uses the same Manifesto):

“Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities.”
–International Humanist and Ethical Union

For more definitions: http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/humanismdefinitions.php

You will find they all read about the same concerning the supernatural. So where did you get the idea that it has been turned into a cult, olvlzl, no ism, no ist.

Anthony said,

Any atheists on this blog more friendly toward postmodernist worldviews?

Can’t say that I am, but I call myself a non-theist.

I mean that Corliss Lamont and Paul Kurtz turned what had been a free thought group and turned it into an ideological cult. Dawkins, as the heir to the Sagan seat of celebrity in CSICOP is getting to add a few of his least favorite ideas to their Index of Prohibitited Thought.

the rest of your post convinces me that those are exactly the kind of folk you’re meeting with. They took over the AHA and turned it into a cult.

Hrm? The rest of my post was about psychology and empiricism. Are you saying psychology and empiricism are a cult, such as what Tom Cruise says?

Please clarify. I’d be also interested in learning which academic criteria for ‘cult’ you are using to apply to the humanist movement.