There is a civil way to say it, which goes something like this: Mike C., Dawkins I can see how you would think that Dawkins can come across as “militant” sometimes in his books, but if you watch his interviews, he’s actually pretty mild mannered and even handed. In the book that’s more his passion for his subject. I encourage you to check out some of his interviews and read some articles about him and you’ll see what I mean. If you are interested and want me to send some your way let me know. He frequently engages more liberal religious people like the Bishop of Oxford (they had had a great interview and are friends) and is respectful with them. It’s more the Tedd Haggard types he goes after more “passionately”, and I think he would have even been respectful toward Haggard if Haggard hadn’t been such a jerk to him. Well, Haggard got what he deserved.

You don’t have to respect beliefs you don’t agree with, but you can respect some of the people behind them based on their character and their actions. From what I’ve read on this board, Mike C has tried to be respectful of the people here.. I think we can extend him the same courtesy and not judge him just b/c he’s not an atheist-and some of your posts attack him simply for that. Isn’t this what we don’t want religious people to do to us? And btw, last I checked, this was a website for atheists and non-atheists to dialouge, not just a straight atheist website.

Whether some of you like it or not, there are jerk atheists (the teenage hate crime and RRS come to mind), just like there are jerk religious people, and there are miltant anti-theists. There are those who want to “ban religion” and I don’t think we should give them the time of day (it’s hypocritical). Keeping it out of government and science is one thing, “banning it all” by force is quite another.

That being said, I don’t feel Dawkins or Harris fits any of the above descriptions. I’d call them controversial, and sometimes militant, though they seem more “passionate” than anything else. The terms “new” (though there is nothing new about many of their arguments, they’ve just brought them to a wider audience), and “outspoken” work too, as well as “strong”. I’ve heard the term “evangelical” used too, it sounds kind of weird though. Both have made it clear they are trying to use words and intellectual arguments to make their points and not force. When people start talking about blatantly discriminating against anyone of faith, that’s when we should worry. But I haven’t heard that-even RRS hasn’t gone that far that I know of.

For myself, I don’t see it as a constructive strategy to focus on deconverting people because I’d rather align with religious moderates to try to focus on common goals and foster a separation of church and state. At the same time, I’m fine with Dawkins and Harris speaking their mind about religion; I think it’s a good sign that religion is being subjected to some scrutiny.

I wish we could avoid this pointless polarization in the secular community, of saying “either you’re fighting to deconvert everyone or you’re telling Dawkins and Harris to shut up.”

I agree. Sounds too much like the “you’re either with me or against me speech” people get mad at religion for.

you should worship the Creator

we should all worship Hogwarts

Who? Who?

you should worship the Creator

Who?

There you go, being rediculously closed-minded again. It’s totally hilarious. I, on the other hand, by parroting what some random theist says, am obviously open-minded. And seriously, what’s all this talk I hear about Harry Potter being fiction? I’d like to see scientists prove that. Until then, perhaps we should all worship Hogwarts.

you should worship the Creator

Who?

http://www.friendsofcwg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12921

The term “fundamentalist atheist” comes up in this forum thread. Are you guys aware of this “Conversations with God” phenomenon? It looks like a movement with massive momentum, and it certainly seems to answer an important Atheist question: is there a “Nice Guy God?” More info at http://www.cwg.org/

Not that I’m endorsing this. Actually, it frickin’ scares my ass.

Please stop with the definition of faith, you’re embarrassing yourself. Erdy is right, maybe we should just let this thread die a natural death.