Jim & Tx, glad you guys got to meet face to face … must have been nice. Thank you all, as always.

But I cannot express my righteous fury for those who use government to oppress others (gay marriage amendments), those who attempt to destroy one of the greatest achievements in the evolution the cosmos (scientific curiosity vs the christian right), and those that would harm my kin and I based on trivial prejudices (the 90% who would not vote for an otherwise qualified atheist).

I’m totally with you there.

Can we both be there and still be friends?

In speaking anthropomorphically as Theists “you” and Atheists “me”….

Yes, we can be good friends! Until one of us punches the other.

And by ‘punch’, I mean uses force (government) to oppress the other. This is why America was founded on a secular constitution – its just not worth it being a religious document!

Unfortunately, “you” (theists) have punched “me” (atheists). You punched with constitutional amendments, intelligent design, tax breaks, and stem cells. “You” punched “me” in the 50s with the editing of our Pledge and our coinage. “You” punched “me” by ignoring my merits and banning me from government solely because I am not “you” (ie, unelectability of atheists unless they pretend to be theists).

I am not aware of “me” punching “you” beyond our original agreement (the secular Constitution).

I think we can be friends again, too. I just need “you” to uphold your end of the agreement.

And I voted for Chris Bell – I thought he put in too little, too late in the race.
I thought he was the “smartest” of the candidates (had intelligent answers, etc)
If any of the others wanted to defeat Perry, they should have dropped out of the race. There was no way any of the three of them were going to be able to overspend him or turn the Republican base against him. They needed to unite against him. And that pissed me off. I was REALLY mad the next day. I walked into work the next day and told my students that I was on the edge and would blow any moment.

What do we do about Christians and the gay choice/birth issue?
I don’t know the answer to that yet. I am still working on it.
How do we battle racism? Many people were raised with it. So it takes time and energy devoted to conversation and the patient tolerance of people to hang in there and build relationships. Like a racist attitude, I don’t think this is going to change over night.
Honestly, I was raised this way-to believe it was a choice. It has taken a lot of time and personal investment in relationships with people who I love who have walked through this with me. They have been very patient and let me ask a lot of questions and never doubted me or my love for them while I was asking the questions.

And (even though you may hate hearing this) I spent a lot of time praying and wondering how Jesus would respond. In Christian tradition, Jesus ALWAYS reached out to the outcasts. Why would he treat homosexuals badly? They are the very ones that he would be reaching out to in my opinion – to be friends etc. So while this may be a fictional person, my faith brought me to this conclusion. I am not trying to win anyone over here – not preaching. Seriously!
That is just an honest response.
So why aren’t other Christians at this same place? I do not know that either.
I do know SOME that are, and some that are moving there.
I am working on it.
But it is like dig a canal with a plastic spoon.

Anyway, thank you for listening.
And I appreciate the conversation.

My judgments of Christians are the same as your judgments of people who believe in D&D roleplaying game deities – just doesn’t make sense to me. However, I think it is my Enlightenment responsibility to tolerate and not promote conflict with those who believe in fiction.

I think this is fair. I can live with this if you can live with it from me.
??? Can we both be there and still be friends? (This is a theoretical question – the big we – Atheists and Christians)

How do we get the 82% of Texans to realize gay marriage is ok? How do we get Texans to realize gay is not a choice?

Oh, and you didn’t vote for Perry….Carol Keeten Strayhorn?

As a side note I probably could agree(believe) on the God idea if it was the one our Founding Fathers believed in. Deists who saw god as the original cause and created nature and then did nothing else. Didn’t write/inspire any books like the koran or bible in other words, those books ruined any chance of me agreeing with theists.

But I do not believe that labeling and judging me (or other Christians) based on your experiences does any good.

Well I can’t speak for all atheists, but I don’t call Christians ‘ignorant’. My judgments of Christians are the same as your judgments of people who believe in D&D roleplaying game deities – just doesn’t make sense to me. However, I think it is my Enlightenment responsibility to tolerate and not promote conflict with those who believe in fiction.

BUT… I think it is very responsible and reasonable for me to lash out against legislation that oppresses others and against cruel prejudices (see my above ‘fury’ paragraph). All the wrongs I described in that paragraph do not need to be an issue – the world can exist without their needing to take place.

So . . .

Holly,
What would you like me to call someone who says that gay is a choice? What would you like me to call the 82% of Texans that voted against gay marriage? What would you like for me to call someone that goes on tv and says god will reward them if they can find it in their heart to donate to help starving kids?

No names just questions.

I would like for people to NOT call ANYONE names.
I understand Anthony. Your Zeus analogy is one I have considered many times.
But I do not consider you ignorant for not believing in God.
And I really do not understand people CALLING me ignorant for believing in God.
I just don’t understand the mindset. I don’t understand it from Christians or Atheists.

I DO want to understand.
I do NOT want to be mocked.

And in the grand scheme of things, I WOULD rather be kind than to be right. That is saying something. Because I like to be right. But in the end, people do not remember you for your rightness. They remember you for how you treated others and what you did to make the world a better place.
I work with 8th graders. And one of the most important lesson I teach is that they need to treat people with kindness and respect – everyone!
I work in a VERY racially mixed school, with ALL economic levels, and have had many students of many different faiths, agnostics, atheists, and sexual preferences. And I just want to teach kids that we can get along.

I believe some people really want this.

I see that many atheists have been treated horribly by Christians. For that I am terribly sorry.
But I do not believe that labeling and judging me (or other Christians) based on your experiences does any good.It only seems to perpetuate the same tired problem that you all claim to want to get rid of in the world.

What I can’t seem to understand is that you do NOT want anyone to make generalizations about atheists or believe bad things about you.

But I cannot express my righteous fury for those who use government to oppress others (gay marriage amendments), those who attempt to destroy one of the greatest achievements in the evolution the cosmos (scientific curiosity vs the christian right), and those that would harm my kin and I based on trivial prejudices (the 90% who would not vote for an otherwise qualified atheist).

And yet you make these assumptions about who I am.
It is okay for you to generalize about me – stereotype me, put me in a box, and call me names.
Double standard.

?????

And yes Tx. I watched the video.
What did you want me to say to that? Did you want me to say that is a good example of who I am? Forget the fact that the closest I have ever come to a pig is the State Fair.

I’d hate to see atheists get lazy in their debunking of religion

hehe, I hear ya. That is a favorite pasttime of many atheists.

For me, I just don’t see the reason to consider supernatural intelligence. Understanding the natural world seems taken care of by science. Emotions of awe, reverence, gratitude, inspiration, all seem to be handled well by their evolved mechanisms in my brain and my own use of self reflection. Morality seems well taken care of by evolved mechanisms mixed with valid reasoning. Any benefit to wellbeing brought about by ritual and social gathering seem to be met by simple efforts on my part.

I just don’t see a need for a supernatural intelligence. I don’t see what I should read the Bible compared to reading Dr Seuss. I don’t see what it adds beyond aesthetics, but I am angry by what it takes away. See next…

we’re not all like the fundamentalists.

Very true. I don’t compare my grandmother to Fred Phelps. If I may bring up the tired gun saying… guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

But I cannot express my righteous fury for those who use government to oppress others (gay marriage amendments), those who attempt to destroy one of the greatest achievements in the evolution the cosmos (scientific curiosity vs the christian right), and those that would harm my kin and I based on trivial prejudices (the 90% who would not vote for an otherwise qualified atheist).

And all these trespasses based on subjective interpretations of fiction. It’s just… so painful for me to swallow, Mike.