Posted by Hemant Mehta in Between the eBay auction and writing the book, I’ve been to many different churches in the the past year. This is a compilation of the things I’ve seen and heard in the churches that simply annoy me. I’m sure they annoy other Christians as well. They detract from what could be a very positive message. It’s not a complete list by any means, so feel free to comment and add to the list!
(By the way, for those who think this list is too “anti-Christian,” the next list will be much kinder to them. Trust me.)
- Wave their hands in front of my face making it impossible to see the stage.
(Will you put your hands down? I get it. They’re singing a song. I’m happy, too. Use your mouths, people. Jesus doesn’t love you any more because your hands are in the air.) - Yell out random words (“Praise Jesus,” “Hallelujah!”) while I’m trying to listen to the sermon.
(You agree with the pastor. We understand this. But just say it in your head or nod silently.) - Walk in after the music— or worse yet, the sermon— has started.
(If it’s not that important for you to be on time, just stop showing up.) - Look at me with anxiety because I’m brown.
- Look at me with excitement because I’m not white.
- Assume that because I know about the Bible, I must believe in the Bible.
(It’s the opposite that’s true.) - Perform a skit that is supposed to tell the day’s message.
(They’re not funny. And frankly, the kids are bad actors. Let’s get to the sermon already.) - Tell me I’m on the “right path” by being there.
(I was doing just fine a couple hours ago, thank you very much.) - Pass out Christian business directories.
(It’s like saying the Christian lawyer is trustworthy, but the Jew lawyer will take your money and the atheist lawyer will try to lose your case on purpose, and don’t even get me started on those brown lawyers… these directories aren’t helping me understand “Christian love.”) - Ask me if they can pray for me.
(If you want to, just go ahead and do it.) - Ask me if they can pray for me, then put their hands on my shoulders and begin praying.
(Stop touching me.) - Mischaracterize people of other faiths or no faiths.
(“Those atheists know God is there; they just don’t want to follow His rules!” “Those Muslims really want to become Christians—to the MissionaryMobile!”) - Assume that everyone who is not Christian must be “saved.”
(I’m quite alright. And stop putting your hands on my shoulder.) - Bring their children, then proceed to fall asleep during the sermon.
(If you don’t want to be there, don’t drag your kids with you.) - Say that those of other Christian denominations aren’t practicing “true” Christianity.
(”They believe in Christ… but they speak in tongues! The heretical bastards!”) - Look at their watches mid-sermon.
(You know this pastor goes long. If you weren’t prepared to sit through it all, you shouldn’t have come.) - Pray for things they can just as easily take care of themselves.
(You want that promotion? Then work harder. You want to pass that test tomorrow? Then go study.) - Pastors tell stories without giving citations.
(“There’s this true story of a guy who [insert random Bible-based act here]…” If it’s true, give me some actual facts.) - Pastors ask questions with obvious answers.
(“Who here believes the Lord is going to save them today?!” I think the people in church are going to say “yes.” Call it a hunch.) - Pastors take an hour to analyze a simple, straight-forward Biblical verse.
(The verse told me to trust in God. I get it. Let’s move on.)
[tags]atheist, atheism, Christian, Christianity, eBay, I Sold My Soul on eBay, church, Jesus, Bible, Jew, God, Pastor[/tags]
I don’t believe there’s such a thing as “too anti-christian”
It’s been a while since I’ve been to a church service (13 years or so) but a lot of those hit the target. Though, there’s a lot of things on that list that I (thankfully) never saw. Lutherans, at least Misery Synod, are pretty anti-fundamental. That, of course, doesn’t make the sermon any shorter or more cogent.
My friend spent his entire summer studying the bible and the Quran. He then wrote a paper pointing out all of the contradictions in them and throwing, point-blank, the bibles own discrepancies into the hard-core Christians faces. If you would like to read it, click my name or go to http://alexnoodles101.googlepages.com Sorry for the lackluster website, I kind of just threw it together for him so he could get it online.
Don’t forget singing like the undead.
I agree completely! Especially with #2 (Yell out random words (“Praise Jesus,” “Hallelujah!”) while I’m trying to listen to the sermon.) I’ve been to services for Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, and Born Agains. This is especially true with the Born Agains, because even the preacher keeps on shouting. It’s like listening to fingernails scratching on a chalkboard. Truly and utterly irritating.
I am in the early stages of studying to be an Anglican priest in Australia. Most parishes in the Sydney diocese are dominated by what many call (affectionately or not) the “happy clappies”, whereas I am definately a “smells and bells” Anglo-catholic.
I recall being at my local parish on my first Christmas Eve in Australia to see plenty of hand waving and cheesy theatrics (including the liturgical dancers who did an interpretive dance about the nativity), a minister wearing shorts, t-shirt and sandals, and generally, no sense of occasion. This was the sort of place that skipped something as theologically central as the Lord’s prayer simply because they didn’t have the right powerpoint slide available. GAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!
I know most of the people here probably don’t believe what I believe about Jesus, but I reckon that if you are going to celebrate the birth of the saviour, at least do it with a sense of occasion and solemnity. That, for what it’s worth, is my contribution to this list.
These are quite funny. # 4 and 5 made me chuckle.
Good stuff
I agree about skits and dancing during the service. I’ve been to my Dad’s church a few times and they always have a bad play or interpretive dance (or worse both) during the service. It takes away from any message they could be trying to share and I keep thinking they are doing it to fill up the hour.
#13 is annoying, but almost impossible for them to stop doing. Bringing more souls to their Dark Master is a moral imperative. If they don’t bring enough soulflesh to the harvest, they may not be eaten first on the day of Rapture.
I’m being facetious with my framing. So? At its base, that’s the reasoning for evangelism.
I guess you don’t care for Pentecostal services. Go to a Catholic mass and your problems will be solved.
ok first of all I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people lifting their hands while singing. Some people feel closer to God and maybe that’s just their way of praising Him. Ok another thing that’s what a preacher’s supposed to do. He is suposed to dig deep into the verses and analyze. I do understand that there are some verses that don’t need an hour of explaining. But don’t make it sound like every verse is strait forward like that because they aren’t. There are some that need explaining and some pastors might happen to be wordy. And please keep in mind that a pastor’s job isn’t to make you happy. The pastor’s ultimate job is to do God’s will.
Awesome! #17 is my favorite.
You should definitely check out “The Screwtape Letters” by C.S. Lewis. Besides being a great comic novel, he has a hilarious section on the distaste we have for our fellow church-goers.
That said, why in the world are you, an atheist, going to church? As a Christian, the only draw it has for me is the communal worship and perhaps the sermon if it’s any good. I hate organ music, most hymns, and other petty annoyances. I can’t imagine going if I thought it was all BS.
Why are you doing that to yourself? There are coffee houses open on Sun. morning, y’know.
Hemant, these are hilarious and oh-so-true! I love ‘em.
Yahmdallah, Hemant visited several churches in his eBay atheist experiment and he has written a book about his experiences. You need to read the background on this site to get the information.
Yup, Alphonse a catholic mass should solve everything . . .if hemant’s main problem is a lack fo sleep.
Karen, yes, a little research (now done) would have answered my question in part.
Most humble apologies.
yahmdallah,
if you claim to be a christian but only go to church for selfish motives (worship and a sermon if it is good) then you have totally missed the point. church is not for you, or any other person for that matter! you are for the church. meaning, it is not what you can get but what you have to offer that counts. it is not a play, concert or entertainment but a celebration and expression of who God is. this means we allow Him to use us with the gifts and talents He has given us to biuld up His people.
hemant,
yes a very interesting list! and yes there would most likely be alot of christians that would find them annoying too! but if you considered it from the above perspective (what was said to Yahmdallah) i would be interested to know which ones you would still see as annoying? good read, great laugh, sadly somewhat true!
Yahmdallah YOU NEED TO GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
just kidding , we love ya!
I can see this theme being picked up in other threads.
“20 Things I Like About Christians”
“20 Things That Annoy Me About Atheists”
“20 Frustrating Mischaracterations About (Insert Group Here)”
I would be interested to see the commentary elicited by such lists.
Jason– I went to the churches knowing I didn’t believe in God. That said, I was looking for churches that would capture my attention and convince me that these are good places to be. Those are at least a few of the things I kept an eye on when I made my visits. So I’d still keep my list. It was frustrating to see those things.
fare enough! i guess what i did not say but assumed was if you put yourself in the christian’s shoes, how would you see it?
since you mentioned the annoying things was there anything you found enjoying or positive?
There were plenty of things that were enjoyable. Really! But you’ll just have to read the book when it comes out to find those out!
Sorry, me and my wife are the late ones. It’s really hard to get up early on Sunday, especially me dragging my feet because I really, really would like to be anywhere but in church.
Something that pisses me off is the overuse of the word “amazing” that’s become evident in the past year or so.
I’ll take a swing at these.
1. I feel your pain – of course, this is why I also hate most concerts
2. See response to 1. (”ROCK ON”, etc.)
3. This is just basic freakin’ courtesy, and something many people just don’t observe much anymore (in church or not)
4/5. Again, I feel your pain, and again, it doesn’t seem to be limited to church. HOWEVER, I notice it much more in church, school, and other places that require or are somehow focused on social interaction.
6. As a matter of pragmatism, it’s probably safe to assume that most people you talk to in a church who know much about the Bible also believe in it, so I wouldn’t knock that assumption too hard.
7. Agreed. Again, this is a problem as well in schools (elementary, at least)
8. I kind of understand why they say it, but it’s annoying and patronizing.
9. Yup. This is an extension of the “church” acting as a community/networking center, rather than religious center*.
10. I don’t understand why people ask this. The only thing I can figure is that there’s some sort of indirect social masturbation** going on.
11. Two words: Personal space. I don’t believe He authorized you to invade it, so back off.
12. Welcome to 90% of EVERYONE in the world who has any kind of belief system (religious or not)
13. Ever had someone volunteer to tell you how to dress/drive/eat/work out, because it’s been just fantastic for her, and she just knows it will make your life wonderful? It’s their job, annoying though it may be.
14. See 3, although I have slightly more sympathy for tired people than for late ones.
15. Internal theological arguments are a lot like family feuds – ever seen an estate battle over crappy furniture, or a divorce gone bad? Understanding that clarifies the emotions involved.
16. Again with the courtesy, though as long as one does it discreetly, I don’t have a problem.
17. I can see the utility for some people in doing this (e.g., it helps to focus your efforts to declare what exactly you want, and sometimes to build confidence in the outcome). That being said, I have a hard time understanding why God would care one way or another about things you “want”, particularly optional things like good grades or promotions. Those kinds of things aren’t inherently useful – they’re only good for getting other things. For example, I might pray for God to help me feed my family and keep a roof over their heads, but I wouldn’t pray for a raise, you know? It’s kinda like trying to tell him how to do his job.
18. Are you talking about specific biblical stories, or contemporary “testimonial” stories? If it’s the first, then most sermons I’ve heard either reference the book/chapter/verse, or actually lead the congregation in reading directly from it. If it’s the second, then I agree wholeheartedly. It’s not hard these days to get a reasonably referenced inspirational anecdote if you actually try to find one (hello, intartubes). Again, I think this is something that appears broadly professions involving public speaking (politicians, pundits, etc.)
19. Yeah, I hate pep rallies too.
20. Depends on the person, of course, but a lot of us like to (over)analyze even superficially simple verses. That being said, I think it makes for a boring sermon for many people.***
*From my experience in Dallas, Texas, most people who go to Christian churches (particularly Catholic and Lutheran) don’t do it for the religious “Dead Man Rising” beliefs, but for the community center role that churches play. I’ve found that the more you ask these people what they believe, the more uncomfortable they get, and I think it’s because they believe for the sake of convenience, and no one likes to admit to that. I also think that this underlying divide between true believers and casual adherents is at the heart of the divide in a lot of churches.
**A small but vocal minority of church-goers have this arrogant attitude – my dad married one last year. These are usually the people who get competitively holier-than-thou, and they are generally prima donnas. They pull 1,2,8,10, and 11, they make sure that EVERYBODY sees and hears them praying for the poor sinner, etc. However, some of these are also done by people who genuinely think they are good, holy things to do. The distinction makes itself clear after awhile – the sincere ones usually go out of their way to do right even at personal cost, while the bad ones have this startling ability to almost instantaneously switch to vituperative attacks on someone with whom they disagree, who crossed them, etc.
***Again, the people who sincerely believe in the defining precepts of their religion – regardless of which faith – are usually more interested in the details. Likewise, those who think that the mundane abstractions of theology detract from the communal/social activities will tend to be bored. I guess it depends on why you’re there.
[...] After posting the list of things that Christians do in church that annoy me, here is something slightly different. [...]
I agree with some of those poins, however I am not a Christian and “church” has nothing to do with actually being a “Christian” , but rather the belief in Christ’s teachings found in the Bible and I’m sure you know that already. Some of the things that annoy you, probably annoy most of the other “Christians” in the pews…why is leadership so out of touch some times?
… where are you going to church???… (confused)
(OK, I’m from a predominantly catholic country so I suppose that’s why I have no idea what you’re talking about most of the time. Of course, things like 3-4-5 do sound familiar)
*nods* I see, I see… say, Can I pray for you? hahahaha
(I really am anyway, you don’t have a choice in it
)
It’s a good thing then that God loves us not because of what we do, but in spite of it.
it aint just the atheists and other nonchristians who get annoyed at these things! they piss me off too.
great post mate. well done.
Hey, don’t hate on the hand raisers! My church is kind of hype so I’m the person in front of you who’s bouncing around while they sing. lol. If I had to go to an Mainline (Catholic, Anglican, etc.) service every Sunday, I wouldn’t go to church at all. I’m an energetic person. I need an energetic church. Strangely though, I’m a bit irritated by random shouting during a sermon too…
I’m guessing the anti-handraisers aren’t much for concerts either.
I think this would make the list http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfCFSIgP3XE
Maybe you’re friendly, maybe not, but if you’re an atheist, you’re in deep kimshi (you know what I mean). It appears your attention span is short. If you’re really more interested in a show with a difficult “church” experience, check out a Jehovah Witness service…if that doesn’t put you onto the Way, you must focus more on Jesus and less on others, as soon as you’re able. I hope you make it; I really do, unless you’re just kidding…
Jerry,
As a person that studied with the JW’s I gotta say it ain’t all that exciting going to a kingdom hall, or especially the weekly bible study at someone’s house. The people are nice though but that’s with any group that has you over via invitation. Trust me, Hemant is nice. A lot nicer than some of the brothers who stopped calling when I said I had some tough questions about the end of the world mistakes the JW’s have made.
This is something that always struck me as odd. Perhaps because most of my experience was among churches or bible study classes with mainstream denominations. (They are still called mainstream even though the numbers are with the fringey findamentalists, why is that?)
The churches I attended held that other denominations may have some doctrinal disagreements but they were still Christian. Nutty, maybe, or misinformed, but probably well intentioned and Christian none the less.
I think the rather positive church related experiences from when I was young kept me from being overly disturbed by the continued persistence of superstition in the form of religion.
All that changed for me with 9-11 and the horrific fundamentalist / literalist response thereto. I was so naive, having been surrounded by rational believers most of my life, that I thought the suicide attack on the WTC presented unassailable proof that literalist, fundamentalist religions had to be rejected.
What I didn’t count on was a US government overrun by literalist lapdogs. I should have known better. Now every tiny incursion against the constitutional separation of church and state raises hackles on my neck! And every time I hear about the liars who convince school boards to teach creationism I want to scream. Sometimes I do. Scream that is. Though not so loud as to disturb my Buddhist neighbors.
That was a great list! #9 made me laugh. My dad was always into those Christian yellow pages. Thanks to the inept people he hired through that, our front door was drafty, and the bathroom was more do-it-yourself at the price of a contractor. Christians who try to insulate themselves from or are condescending to non-Christians bother me. I’ve been going to church since I was a baby, so I have seen my fair share of denominations and congregations, and no matter how progressive/open minded/”seeker friendly” a church claims to be, you always find those narrow minded few (or many, in far too many cases). It makes those of us who are not like that (and we do exist…) look like jerks.
I’ve been on both – actually three – sides of the experience, as a former Christian who studied to be a pastor and now categorizes her spiritual path as ‘other.’
Some of the things, like hands and response, are cultural. I used to find shouting out during sermons distracting from the pew but when you’re standing in the pulpit, getting SOMETHING to show somebody’s actually listening feels good!
And the watch-looking is the International Churchmember Sign Language for “Wrap it up, dude — you’re sucking all of the air out of the room!” Boy, did I feel that way a LOT in seminary. Many folks use a lot of words (or ridiculously elaborate words) to cover up the fact they just don’t know what the heck they are talking about. Sometimes they need a little ‘tough love’
A great list. Folks shouldn’t see it as an attack, but insight into the response of “the unchurched” to services. Though as a pastor friend of mine says “perhaps viewing church as something that gets DONE to people is part of the problem!”
You know what really annoys me about Christians? They do something really great, like win a prize and then they say “I believe God made me do X” and I’m like, “have some self respect dude!, you mean you don’t believe you did X because you were smart/talented/whatever, low self esteem much?”
[...] I thought that this was sad, funny, informative, and hard to read all at once. It is from “Friendly Atheist.” It lists 20 things that Christianians do that annoys him. I thought that the insights from an outsider was helpful and interesting. I even found myself agreeing with some of them. [...]
I don’t get it. Then again, some people look at me funny because my sons are bi-racial or because (and my son will attest to this) I appear to be colour blind. Of course, when you said that, I had to look at your pic again, but still that isn’t the first thing that comes to my mind when I meet someone. What I don’t get is, why is that the first thing that comes to other people’s minds? It annoys me too when someone points that out- like that article about Obama “Is he Black enough?” *rolling eyes* or something like that that was on CNN website or some news site. Why does it matter? As a mother of Bi-racial children, it not only annoys me, but I really don’t understand it. Of course, no one has been able to explain it to me in a way I do understand. I’ve always been one to look in people’s hearts first and I don’t know why others can’t seem to do that too.
You probably can’t explain it to me either, Hemant, and I wouldn’t blame you if you didn’t even bother with trying, because it still makes no sense even if one does understand it enough to explain it.
I’m a Christian but I respect others to choose their beliefs. Lol these things annoy me too!
http://www.litchick.net/blog
I am a Messianic/Christian woman….and I totally agree with all but 3 of your points. It can get annoying at times. And I’d like to ditto, don’t touch me!
Hemant, what is your weird obsession with thinking that people CARE that you are brown?
I’m brown and I go to church and have been to LOTS of churches. I even have a white wife and two kids. I cant say it’s even that common for us to get any kind of special attention. I mean if we’re new to the church people greet us and stuff but nothing out of the ordinary.
It could be all in your head buddy.
You even mentioned that you thought the reason James Robinson said that you might enjoy Ravi Zechariahs was “because we are both brown”…umm it could be that you both came out of Indian religions. I don’t think color had a thing to do with it. Culture more like. What’s wrong with him thinking you might relate easier to someone with the same cultural background? Everyone does. Do you have some kind of repressed racial issues you want to talk about??
We’re here for you man
Stephan– I’m sure most people don’t care that I’m brown
But I do notice some people staring at the churches; I assume because they’re not used to seeing Indian people in church. Maybe it is in my head, but I do think some people act differently (it’s subtle but it’s there) when they see me compared to when they might see another white person.
As for your Zacharias comment, I’ll address it in the proper thread.
Ask me if they can pray for me, then put their hands on my shoulders and begin praying.(Stop touching me.)
haha classic. for a sex fearing lot there is a lot of touching going on. hugs were always fun on a sunday morning.
I think that you all need God because he loves everyone, and everything. Maybe you just need to find yourself a good church that fits you right
Okay, what is it with the “drive-by witnessing” here lately?
What Karen said!
These drive-by’s seemed to be a fairly recent phenomenon. I’m thinking it may be an indication that Hemant’s “atheist celebrity” status and his Blog are getting wider attention from the proselytizing types.
Maybe that’s a good sign. Then again, maybe it’s just a bunch of clue-less jerks who think they are getting heavenly brownie points or something. I just know I prefer the well spoken posters who have been the majority of believers on this site.
I was actually thinking exactly the same thing. So, maybe it’s an indicator of Hemant’s popularity (or notoriety!?) growing, which is a good thing – especially with the book due out shortly. And, of course, any site with “atheist” in the name draws the attention of evangelists.
I completely understand the thinking behind the “drive-by”: The idea is the the believer only has to “plant a seed” (Christian-ese for “introduce the idea”) by parroting some platitudes, and the Holy Spirit will then swoop in to “soften the hearts” (make people’s minds magically receptive to the idea) and seal the conversion deal.
That’s why these types don’t engage in real discussion, do One Iota of thinking for themselves, or stick around to consider anything else we’re talking about once they’ve done their preaching. Y’know, Richard Dawkins gets criticized for labeling them “mindless faithheads,” and while I don’t like name-calling, I am really starting to empathize with his frustration. And I’ve only been dealing with them for a couple of years, where he’s had to live with them for his entire career.
Thank you for admitting there God is in the mix — it’s a beginning of understanding. No church or Christian is perfect, which is why we need God. The road you are traveling is opening lots of new doors. True – talent, motivation, intelligence are good things — What we chose to do with them and and our life are up to us. For anyone who has not opened and read their owner’s manual – The Bible – you have nothing to lose and lots to gain.
CMCatcher, what makes you so sure the Bible is the ONLY correct text or “owner’s manual”? Did you know that Islamics (esp the extremists) believe that Christians are infidels and are going to hell? Same as your beliefs, but instead of everyone BUT Christians, it’s everyone BUT Muslims. So um… how do we know who is right and who is wrong? How can you be so sure you are right? How do you know your god is right and not the Hindu god- Vishnu? Or what about Buddha? The list goes on and on.
Isn’t it possible all roads lead to center? Whatever that may be. Who knows, the Humanists could be right with the idea of reason and compassion (without the belief in the supernatural) of being the only way to go. You never know.
Besides, Hemant could read the Bible along with all the myths it evolved from and come to the conclusions that others have come to when they are finished.
Here is some comedy for you.
You are brown and round. Oh, and of course friendly too. Anyone, who sells his soul is a loser in my book. I want an easy life too, but would never sell my soul and it is not fair that you are now selling a book. I hope you do get rich and end up on the Oprah show. Life is not fair for sure. Life is good though, even without lots of money, or even going to the Oprah show. Have a great weekend.
I would like to add on to your list
21. Assume that they personally will get Jesus into my heart.
(I asked and invited several times both with a group of friends in a church and in private. If he isn’t there after MY invitation, why would he come here after yours?)
Brent Gallaway,
you have to actually believe that he’s there and he will be.. so he was already there after the 1st invitation
Hi Hemant,
I was glad to see you on the Pat Robison Show today.
I am a Christian, but I don’t believe that anyone has the right to try and force their beliefs on anyone else.
I believe that we (Christians) should share the love of Christ with all those who we meet, but still respect everyone’s right of free choice. I believe that we are required to share the good news of Christ’s love, and that our duty/obligation ends there.
I also believe that we can teach more with our lives than with our lips.
Having this opportunity, I want to tell you that God loves you Hemet. I won’t try to convince you of anything, …but I must say, that over the years, God has proven Himself to me. He has brought me through too much for me to ever doubt Him.
He is very real. He will do the same for you if you so desire Hemet.
You were very kind and courteous on the Pat Robison Show, and you’re cute too! (grin)
I feel good knowing that a Christian bought your soul and I look forward to watching you as you travel this journey.
Keep an open mind Hemet, …and please continue to share with us, the things that we Christians do that turn people off to Christ. We can learn from each other.
I must admit, ……that I know a few “Christians” that even turn me off. (grin)
Sharon
Sharon,
You said a mouthfull. You are what a true Christian should be. Love your neighbors and love your enemies. I too have had religion shoved down my throat. When I was able to explore my options I came back to Christ in my own time not someone else’s. I too have experienced the love and mercy that can be found in God.
That brings me to the list. As sad as it is, I have witnessed these shannanigans too. It pains me to see people go through the motions but fail to truly witness the truth of God. I too get annoyed at the hand wavers and people who speak out loud. Though I would never say anything to them, I don’t believe it gets you any closer to God.
I have to admit I fell asleep once, but I had been up all nigh the previous night and thought I could make it through the service. I did leave the service early and go home and sleep. I no longer attend church service because I am afraid of the diversion from the truth. Too many times God’s word is perverted to fit someone’s ideals and I don’t want to be a part of that. Instead, I seek the truth through bible study, books, and reliable Christian websites.
I have to add to the list and say that it annoys me, no angers me, that priests get away with molesting our children. I read a news article the other day that told of a priest getting only 30 days in jail for molestation. I was so outraged that he got off so easily.
Anyway, for all the atheists out there . . I have been in a position, as a child, where religion was shoved down my throat and I was told I was a devil child because of the music I listened to. And I left religion behind for many years because of that, but I found that this person who used religion against me was perverting God’s perfect word for control over me.
Don’t let religious zealots or those that pervert His word scare you away. Find the truth for yourselves.
Hemant,
My dad got your book and I just started reading it today. I think it is very interesting and so far I have enjoyed it. As a Christian, I hope to benefit from your views. Right now, i just want to put my input into your top 20 list, so here goes:
#1- For some people this is part of praising God. I don’t do this in a regular worship service, but at camp it’s appropriate and it changes the worship service, when you raise your hands or dance it puts more of your focus into the song and what God has done. And I know that when I start raising my hands or jumping up and down in a camp service that it encourages others to do so and it might enhance their worship too. Have you tried it? You might end up having a new understanding.
#2- This annoys me also. If it’s something like “alleluia” or “praise the Lord” I don’t see the point. But at my church I love it when people talk to the pastor (my father) while he is preaching because it shows how comfortable people are. (And it might get a few things cleared up!) And I don’t mean that there is a continous dialogue, just random stuff here and there!
#3- I am guilty of arriving late, but I think it is acceptable if you sit in the back somewhere so you don’t distract others. Sometimes circumstances prevent you from being on time!
#4- Unfortunately, depending on the racial make-up of the congregation, this does happen. But doesn’t this happen in most places? It does isolate people, but part of it is just society in general.
#5- Hehe. Need I repeat #4?
#6- Well usually if a person takes the time to study God’s Word and comes to church, they do believe in it, or lean toward those beliefs. It’s a common mistake, in your case, that people think that you believe. Most of the non-Christians I have met don’t know much about my beliefs or Christian beliefs in general.
#7- These can be helpful to some people, although I don’t think it should be done every service, it can be tedious.
#8- This does seem to be a little brash.
#9- I did not know that some churches did this until I read this list. It sounds stupid to me. What does being a Christian have to do with getting a job done right? Same thing with non-Christians.
#10- I know that when I want to pray for people, I would like to know specifics about what is going on in their lives. I know that my God knows everything, but personally, it gets boring for me to pray for people that I really know nothing about.
#11- Yes, the whole laying on of hands should only be done when the person being prayed for gives permission. Personal space!
#12- I don’t see a lot of that happening where I am. As Christians we have been called to care about others and their immortal state (the heaven and hell question) but sometimes we make the wrong assumptions. (and you know what assuming does!)
#13- We want you to be saved because we care. We believe that if you have the wrong belief (or, apparently, no belief) that your soul will forever burn in hell. Who would wish that on another human being, or any being for that matter?
#14- I have never seen this happen. I have seen people fall asleep (mostly senior citizens) and I have seen people do nothing about their unruly children. The people who don’t do anything about their kids is what annoys me.
#15- I believe there are three things that make a person a Christian:
1. The belief that Jesus is the only way to heaven through his
sacrifice.
2. That Christ will automatically forgive any repentant sinner.
3. That all man has sinned and falls short of the glory of God.
(Without Christ)
If a denomination does not believe these things, I believe they are not believing the right beliefs. (lol! 4 times!) But just because they are a different denomination or have a different political view does not make them wrong.
#16- There are some pastors who are usually have short speeches and every once in a while come up with a lot to say. If you don’t attend a church regularly you really don’t know! I know this isn’t a valid point because I’m just a kid, but sometimes I like to look at my watch just because I can, I don’t mean to be rude.
#17- I know that in my belief, prayer is giving what happens in your life to God. Letting him know that he is in control of your life and you will follow what he leads you to do with no questions asked. (Although the “no questions asked” part rarely happens) In my view, Christianity is a relationship where humans depend on God for everything. So, if you were to ask me, I would say “no you can’t do it by yourself because God makes things happen, you just have to try your best by trusting in him.”
#18- I was always irked when at a past church, the pastor never quoted the Bible and just explained different doctrines. (I know I am not quoting the Bible here, but I am not preaching a sermon to you, if somebody wants references, I would be happy to provide!)
#19- This can be annoying, but in my experience, it only happens in larger churches. It pretty much is a pep rally….
#20- Biblical passages have depth and meaning and if you don’t study the Word or know the context/history of it, then you don’t get the whole meaning. (In fact, I don’t think that anyone but God himself gets the full meaning of his Word.) If I were being preached to verse by verse, though, I would be suspicious because without context, it’s nothing.
Something that I would ad to your list would be those Christians that capitalize a pronoun (other than “I”) when referring to God! It’s just a pronoun, folks. And just because I go to a Christian school doesn’t mean that I need to capitalize he, him or his because it is referring to him. Don’t mark me down for it!
Well I have to get back to your book.
Yeah. Some of that is true. Unfortunately you’ve, as every single atheist does, taken EVERYTHING out of context in an attempt to show the people reading how amazingly right you are (note the sarcasm?). How about everyone stop agreeing with this ‘atheist’ take a long hard think about why certain things happen at church; such as the raising of hands (a sign of surrender and the laying on of hands, which was practiced in the early christian church by the apostles). If you want to be alone in the corner and keep up the, “Don’t touch me!” thing because you really don’t have a sense of originality and couldn’t come up with something smarter then fine. No wonder you’re an atheist. Lonliness must be really hard…
Amazing how much of a fool you are….
Mitchell, you may have valid objections to specific things that Hemant has said; however your objections will have more credibility if you stick to what you know.
For you to state that “every single atheist” takes “everything” out of context in order to appear “right” is a claim that you actually know every single atheist and that you know every single thing that they do. You don’t. I have to wonder if you know any closely. If I were to begin a statement with “Every single Christian” and continue with some unflattering attribute I expect that you would have strong objections, and rightfully so.
For you to attempt to psychoanalyze Hemant about not wanting to be touched, to make judgmental statements about his motives, and to conclude that he is lonely are all claims that you can read minds. You can’t. Try just reading your own mind. If I were to make value statements about your thoughts, motives and feelings without anything to go by except what you just wrote I expect that you would have strong objections, and rightfully so.
An explanation of the raising of hands and laying on of hands would actually be interesting to myself and many of the atheists here if you presented it in a dignified manner without the negative statements about people you don’t know.
In an open-handed way I invite you to please tell us more about some of the things that Hemant has described, and give us the context and the meaning that would help promote respectful understanding.
I agree with Richard. Very well written Richard!
[...] I read this post and it made me laugh out loud several times, both because it was funny and because I agreed with him. I had been thinking about this for a while and when I read this post it seemed to bring some of my thoughts together. [...]
I know funny…and that crap is funny. a lot of these things bother me too and I love Church…
[...] I actually got the idea for this list from a post on a blog titled “Friendly Atheist”. The author apparently goes to different churches as an observer and compiled a list of “20 Things That Christians Do in Church That Annoy Me“. [...]
8 concerns I have with atheism:
1. An atheist assigns himself to life without ultimate purpose. Yes, atheists enjoy many smaller meanings of life– like friendship and love, pleasure and sorrow, Mozart and Plato. But to be consistent with his atheism, he cannot allow for ultimate meaning. Yet, if the atheist is honest, he will admit to feeling that there is something more to existence -something bigger. Someone said, “The blazing evidence for immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution.” According to Scripture, God has, “set eternity in the hearts of men” (Ecclesiastes 3:11). To maintain his position, the atheist must suppress the feeling that there is more to life than what is temporal. But the atheist encounters many other difficulties.
2. The atheist must also suppress the demands of logic. He is like the man who finds an encyclopedia lying in the woods and refuses to believe it is the product of intelligent design. Everything about the book suggests intelligent cause. But, if he accepted such a possibility, he might be forced to conclude that living creatures composed of millions of DNA-controlled cells (each cell containing the amount of information in an encyclopedia) have an intelligent cause. His controlling bias against God will not allow him to accept this.
3. Yet, ironically, the atheist has to believe in miracles without believing in God. Why? Well, one law that nature seems to obey is this: whatever begins to exist is caused to exist. The atheist knows that the universe began to exist and since the universe is, according to the atheist, all there is, the very existence of the universe seems to be a colossal violation of the laws of nature (i.e., a miracle). It’s hard to believe in miracles without God.
4. An atheist must also suppress all notions of morality. He is not able to declare any quality to be morally superior to another. Such admissions require an absolute standard of goodness and duty. Without this, there is no basis for an atheist to declare peace better than war or love better than hate. These are simply alternative choices without moral superiority. The atheist is stuck believing that morality has no claim on you or anyone else.
5. In fact, the atheist must conclude that evil is an illusion. For there to be evil, there must also be some real, objective standard of right and wrong. But if the physical universe is all there is, there can be no such standard (How could arrangements of matter and energy make judgments about good and evil true?). So, there are no real evils, just violations of human customs or conventions. How hard it would be to think of murderers as merely having bad manners.
6. The atheist must also live with the arrogance of his position. Although he realizes that he does not possess total knowledge, his assertion that there is no God requires that he pretend such knowledge. Although he has limited experience, he must convince himself that he has total experience so that he can eliminate the possibility of God. It is not easy to hold the arrogant assertions required by atheism in a society that requires blind tolerance of every ideology.
7. The atheist must also deny the validity of historical proof. If he accepted the standard rules for testing the truth claims of historical documents, he would be forced to accept the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. The account of Jesus’ resurrection is strongly validated by standard rules for judging historical accuracy. The extensive manuscript evidence of eyewitnesses to the resurrection is presented in an unbiased, authentic manner. It is the atheist’s anti-supernatural bias that keeps him from allowing history to prove anything.
8. Finally, the atheist must admit that human beings are not importantly different from other animals. According to the atheist, we are simply the result of blind chance operating on the primordial ooze, and differing from animals by only a few genes. Yet, the wonders of human achievement and the moral dignity we ascribe to human beings just do not fit with the claim that we are no different than the animals. The realities of human creativity, love, reason, and moral value seem to indicate that humans are creatures uniquely made in the image of God.
The atheist’s problem with belief in God is not the absence of evidence but the suppression of it. This is what Sscripture teaches. “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:20-22).
Steven W. Cornell,
http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/2007/04/02/harris-and-dawkins-promote-atheism/
To “Pastor” Steve:
You sure seem to think you know a whole lot about what atheists think, feel and do. How many atheists do you actually know personally and intimately? I know many atheists very personally and intimately, and none of them resemble in any way the nonsense that you have written here. I suspect that you don’t know a single one with any kind of closeness.
The best way to get to know what you’re talking about is to ask questions, rather than make statements.
In number 6 you complain about arrogance. You should look at your own arrogance, making critical statements about people about whom you clearly know nothing. If all you assume about atheists comes from what you read in the Bible then you don’t know squat. You have nothing but your own ignorance to offer, and if you think that your ignorance is righteous, then that is called bigotry.
I’m sure if I came to you and pretended to know all about what you think, feel and do without first having gotten to know you well, you would find that very offensive and you could correctly call me arrogant.
You call yourself a pastor. Does that imply that you actually care about people? If so, then get to know them first before you write negative things about them.
I know what you mean about the feel good kind of churches youknow the ones that you go there on your usual sunday morning and then after the sermon people on there usual ways all you want to do is here that it is alright and maybe that there is hope in this world after all. I am a born again christian. I believe that god did save my life after all i got to believe in something cause i m not gonna take my chances and not believe anything cause the cool liberal people are doing it. I just think that of there was a heaven or a hell I would like to go to heaven you know if you have a belief than you have something to lose and that would be going to heaven and if you have no belief in anything and heaven and hell did excist than you have lost everything and if it doesnt excist than you have nothing to lose so why not give it a chance. I can understand that church can be a boring place put it is a place that they went to so that they can get there life straight, there are more messed up people in church than there are i he realworld. well i hope that you will give god a chance I did and right now Im in japan doin great and living my life for god. we both did it together but you just cant pray for everything you got to ask him to give you the strength to succeed and put all trust in what he want s to mold you as.
bert vanderpool ( popes son )
[...] Atheist has just published a post titled, 20 Things That Christians Do in Church That Annoy Me. Hemant Mehta is an atheist who has visited many churches and he reflects on what he has [...]
I’ve only gotten to number 1 on your list so this may be premature, but actually there are specific scriptures that deal with raising hands in the presence of God.
Hi, I’m a christian myself and I must admit that I somewhat agree with you. I’ve always hated how some christians look at someone who’s different from them, or a newcomer, as if they are a parasite or something. I also have always been the type to pray alone. That’s one reason why I don’t go to the altar. I know for a fact that if I were to go up there that people would start touching me and praying. I don’t want that, I just want to be alone. Also, I’ve always thought that some people are kind of selfish when it comes to prayer. For example, I will be sitting in a class waiting to start but it’s about (no lie) 20-25 minutes before we actually even start the lesson because people are too busy naming prayer requests. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think these people are bad or anything, I just think that they’re being a little selfish, especially when they pray for something that they can do on their own. For example, I’m looking for a job. I don’t ask for prayer for looking for a job when I know that all I have to do is put in an application several places and if someone’s interested then I’ll set up an interview. I respect atheists like you who aren’t going to criticize. You pointed out though that them saying things during the sermon such as Hallelujah and I don’t really have a problem with this. Everyone is different though. They’re just really getting into it. I’d rather someone yell during a service than see them sleeping during it. Thank-you for writing this! It has made me think deeper about many things that I may do wrong that makes me look bad to others, such as coming in late and such. I look forward to your book and God bless!
Thanks for the food for thought. Please see my responses to this posting. I would be very interested to hear your rejoinder.
[...] on that note, FriendlyAthiest.com: 20 Things That Christians Do in Church That Annoy Me… “Pastors ask questions with obvious answers. ‘Who here believes the Lord is [...]
[...] Let’s start with Friendly Atheists list of 20 things People do in Church that Annoy Me [...]
Thank Hemant for your perspective. It’s amazing, that I’m a pastor and agree with a lot of these. I hope you don’t mind if I post it on my blog. I will give you full credit.
Blessings
[...] 8. From the Friendly Atheist – “20 Things that Christians Do In Church That Annoy Me“ [...]
Jerry D’Eliso wrote:
>”Maybe you’re friendly, maybe not, but if you’re an
>atheist, you’re in deep kimshi (you know what I mean).”
Really? From what I’ve seen of Christian egos and their self absorbed thinking and hatred of anyone who doesn’t look or act like they do, I’m betting that God likes Atheists better.
Jerry, perhaps it is you who should be worrying about being in “deep kimchi”??
Katie said,
Well said, Katie.
When was the last time you saw a Christian pray for God to help make themselves a better person or pray that God help them understand the other person’s point of view? I have never seen that but I still have hope that someday I might be pleasantly surprised.
Mark: Actually, I would bet that *most* Christians pray for God to help them be better people. Or do you have access to all our collective inner prayer lives that we don’t know about?
It is true that some Christians are self-absorbed – as are many Buddhists, Muslims, and atheists – but I am also interested in where you have seen “hatred of anyone who doesn’t look or act like they do.” Are there some Christians who are like this? No doubt there are, somewhere- but I have been in plenty of Christian churches, and one thing I have NEVER seen is “hatred of anyone who doesn’t look or act like they do.” Now, we used to attend a Unitarian “church” – plenty of hatred there for the hated conservatives, they’d have blown a gasket had I told them I supported Ronald Reagan – but I have not seen it in Christian churches. Honestly, the apparent hatred of Christians in your postings and the ones of most other atheist makes me think that, if we do hate people who don’t share our beliefs, we have plenty of company.
I also want to challenge the assumption that praying for something to happen (like getting a job) is somehow either inherently bad or is something we do instead of working hard to get the position or is something we do instead of praying for other people. All three counts are wrong. First, if we believe that God exists and that He cares about us, then why not pray about it? Second, we pray about it and then work our hardest to make it happen – which seems perfectly in line with Jesus’s examples. Finally, we do pray for other people – though perhaps those whose inner thoughts you seem to know do not – but we think that God wants us to pray for ourselves as well.
It’s a lot like having a good friend who you know loves you. We would naturally tell him about what’s going on in our lives, our thoughts and feelings, and trust that he will do what he thinks best to help us. You do not believe that such a Friend exists, but at least understand that we do and our actions are consistent with such a belief. It’s a sound principle not to mock what you don’t understand or share beliefs in.
Well, obviously from the above statement you don’t like church or the people. So why you even go?
I wish i’d found this last night. A friend decided to visit me after work and he brought along a ‘christian’ mate.
This ‘christian’ then proceeded to preach about jesus and kept asking if i was a muslim or a sikh, to which i kept replying i’m hindu, we dont preach, are pacifist, and are taught not to be-little anothers faith.(Strange that he would assume a brown person is either muslim or sikh first and not know about hindu’s, the religion has been around for what feels like forever).
This only encouraged him to ask if i believe in god,(stranger too that he thought i would not believe in god), yes i said, but not a god who cares if i smoke, or drink, or a god who is so petty he requires me to praise him/her (the christian did’nt like that,) for every little thing that i have acheived through my own hard work.
He eventualy gave in trying to convert me and left in a right huff.
I have found that alot of christians are basically prejudice hypocrits, for example the ‘christian’ asked “when you drink, dont you feel like…. i dont know….. ohh throwing a brick or something, because it messes with your mind dont it?” To which i looked at him and said you may be like that but i’ve never had a thought like that when i’m drunk, or sober, or even angry. He then turned a little red and looked at me with a really cold stare.
I dont hate the christian religion, I have many church going friends and even a few who teach sunday school, but some of the ideas these ‘militant’ christians have would make jesus weep. I’ve had warmer conversations with BNP members for ‘CHRISTS’ sake. (see what i did there?)
I am a Christian who attends church regularly, and I have to say that I can’t disagree with any of the gripes that you have. I am so very thankful that
every time I show up late to service, nod off during the sermon, or wish that the pastor would just wrap it up already so I can go eat lunch, I am forgiven. When I lack in my devotion I am not opening my eyes and ears to the message of the Lord. I am eternally more sinful and terrible than I can ever know. I can only put my faith in the Grace that has been given to me through the death of Christ on the Cross.
Additionally, I think it would be interesting to see a list about the 78 good things you have seen in Church. I have a feeling that you, as an observer or perhaps journalist is a better description, might see the atmosphere of any Church dynamic uniquely.
[...] 8. From the Friendly Atheist – “20 Things that Christians Do In Church That Annoy Me“ [...]
Going into a church doesn’t make you a Christian anymore than going into a garage makes you a car. Why are you really going to these churches? People do the things they do because we all have different personality types. Some people will not learn their Bible if it isn’t presented with some hoaky bells and whistles. Some will not learn if it it’s not quiet and reverent. If one church service annoys you then you find another church until you find one that fits with your personality. It’s not about the presentation of a message. You should go to church for your own benefit to be with people of like faith to encourage you to get you through your week and to be there for you during good and bad times.
It’s all about faith. And even to believe in nothing is to believe in something. And there’s always the good old cliche we Christians like to stick to….If I’m wrong, and there is no God, I’ll never know. I’ll die and be dead. If you’re wrong, and there is a God, you’ll know forever that you were wrong.
Lisa Says:
True, but I have yet to find a Church that doesn’t say you MUST go to church to be a proper christian.
I have found that its mostly about money. If you don’t think so then stand up in your church next sunday and tell them that you will not be giving them any more money and see what happens. They don’t like it when their revenue stream dries up!
I’m still trying to find a church that cares about God and not just the cash.
Please tell me why do you go to church? I don’t get it. – STAY HOME !!!!
What a good read. I’m one of those unlucky Atheists that are pushed into Catholic school so I can convert. Well, the masses at school have made me even more convinced that I don’t want to convert. Everything you’ve mentioned annoys the living hell out of me.
I’m glad there’s people who understand. :]
You are exactly right! I only go to please my mom, and my church has donuts! Life point at 6 forks road.
I think you all should read “Tortured for Christ” written by Richard Wurmbrand, founder of The Voice of the Martyrs. He was once an atheist.
After you read:
Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America’s Leading Atheists
by Dan Barker
or
Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity
by John W. Loftus
k, Sandra?
And bone up on some evolution too. Just a chapter or two from a decent high school bio text would help you understand the “…if we evolved from apes, then why…?” concept you so woefully aren’t understanding. (I read your comments on another thread about evolution.)
“I hope there is no God” An honest atheist strikes the right chord.
See:
http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/i-hope-there-is-no-god-thomas-nagel/
Heres what I don’t really understand. And this is just an honest question, no hidden motives or anything like that.. If you say that you practice atheism, isn’t that saying that there’s a God to deny? Or saying that there is a God but he just doesn’t exist? I guess I’m just trying to understand atheism..?
Does Apollo exist? Do you believe in Apollo? Or do you see him as fiction?
Hi Casey,
First of all, thank you for asking these simple, sincere questions. Too often, people come here to tell atheists about themselves, rather than honestly wanting to learn about us. I appreciate your openness.
Atheism is nothing more than the lack of belief in a god or gods. It isn’t really something that someone “practices” in the way that someone can practice Christianity or practice meditation. Most atheists simply lack the belief; they say “I have no belief in a god or gods.” Very, very few atheists go further to assertively express an active belief that there are no gods. That belief would require just as much evidence as a statement about gods existing, and evidence is the key to understanding atheists.
Many people are skeptical people, meaning they need tangible, visible evidence before they can believe extraordinary claims. They are not refusing to believe, they just need something solid to convince them. Atheists are people like that who so far have not seen any convincing evidence for a god or gods.
When an atheist says that she or he does not believe in a god or gods, s/he is usually referring to whatever god or gods that someone else is referring to. So the gods they say they do not believe in are the concepts that god believers around them are talking about. Those concepts do not have to actually exist for someone to say that they do not think they do exist.
Let’s assume that you do not believe in fairies. If a believer in fairies asks you if you believe in fairies, you might politely reply that you have never seen any evidence for fairies, so you do not believe in them. Your lack of belief in fairies does not first require fairies to exist for you to be skeptical about them. You are simply skeptical because you need convincing evidence to accept such a claim. Whether or not fairies do exist is not really the point. The lack of evidence is why you lack the belief in them.
So an atheist would not believe “that there is a god but he just doesn’t exist,” as you put it, because that would be a contradiction in terms. In that kind of sentence, “is” and “exist” mean the same thing. It can’t be and not be at the same time. Most atheists simply have no belief in any gods, just as you probably do not have any belief in fairies, and probably for the same reason, a lack of convincing evidence.
Again Casey, thank you for your earnest and straight forward curiosity.