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	<title>Comments on: Grand Canyon</title>
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	<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/</link>
	<description>Atheism with Positivity</description>
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		<title>By: Friendly Atheist &#187; Travel Days</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-8836</link>
		<dc:creator>Friendly Atheist &#187; Travel Days</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-8836</guid>
		<description>[...] But while I&#8217;m here, I&#8217;ll check out the Grand Canyon and see what all the fuss is about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But while I&#8217;m here, I&#8217;ll check out the Grand Canyon and see what all the fuss is about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: FriendlyAtheist</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3686</link>
		<dc:creator>FriendlyAtheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3686</guid>
		<description>Even if the Da Vinci Code was sold at the Louvre, that book is openly a work of fiction.  

The book that we&#039;re talking about at the Grand Canyon park is being sold as if it were telling the (scientific) truth.

Again, presenting the Grand Canyon book as if it is a myth that one group of people believe (along with Native American beliefs), that&#039;s very different from presenting those books as accurate reflections of modern knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if the Da Vinci Code was sold at the Louvre, that book is openly a work of fiction.  </p>
<p>The book that we&#8217;re talking about at the Grand Canyon park is being sold as if it were telling the (scientific) truth.</p>
<p>Again, presenting the Grand Canyon book as if it is a myth that one group of people believe (along with Native American beliefs), that&#8217;s very different from presenting those books as accurate reflections of modern knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3685</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3685</guid>
		<description>does the Louvre sell copies of &quot;The Da Vinci Code&quot;?

to me, the most telling part of this argument/bickering is that the &quot;non-believers&quot; seem to be held to a higher standard of proof than the believers...

do the religious zealots ever take a half-truth and spin it in their own favor for the sake of argument?  quite frequently.  but those who prefer the separation of church and state are apparently not allowed to take a three-quarter-truth to demonstrate that our government should not be selling religious texts in national parks.

(as they were actual residents, presenting the Native American beliefs in national parks is very appropriate.  if there was actual evidence that Noah was present at the creation of the Grand Canyon, it would be appropriate to present that viewpoint.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does the Louvre sell copies of &#8220;The Da Vinci Code&#8221;?</p>
<p>to me, the most telling part of this argument/bickering is that the &#8220;non-believers&#8221; seem to be held to a higher standard of proof than the believers&#8230;</p>
<p>do the religious zealots ever take a half-truth and spin it in their own favor for the sake of argument?  quite frequently.  but those who prefer the separation of church and state are apparently not allowed to take a three-quarter-truth to demonstrate that our government should not be selling religious texts in national parks.</p>
<p>(as they were actual residents, presenting the Native American beliefs in national parks is very appropriate.  if there was actual evidence that Noah was present at the creation of the Grand Canyon, it would be appropriate to present that viewpoint.)</p>
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		<title>By: Pete T Barnes</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3646</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete T Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 04:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3646</guid>
		<description>When  I was a kid I was told a Scotsman dug the Grand Canyon looking for a nickel he lost down a gopher hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When  I was a kid I was told a Scotsman dug the Grand Canyon looking for a nickel he lost down a gopher hole.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete T Barnes</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3645</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete T Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 04:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3645</guid>
		<description>Creation and evolution, both theories are haywire, the truth lies some where between the two. I am a pantheist, the whole universe is god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Creation and evolution, both theories are haywire, the truth lies some where between the two. I am a pantheist, the whole universe is god.</p>
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		<title>By: Friendly Atheist &#187; Doonesbury and the Grand Canyon</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3608</link>
		<dc:creator>Friendly Atheist &#187; Doonesbury and the Grand Canyon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3608</guid>
		<description>[...] Today&#8217;s Doonesbury talks about the Grand Canyon controversy. It&#8217;s not particularly funny, but it&#8217;s good that the story isn&#8217;t flying completely under the radar. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Today&#8217;s Doonesbury talks about the Grand Canyon controversy. It&#8217;s not particularly funny, but it&#8217;s good that the story isn&#8217;t flying completely under the radar. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MTran</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3175</link>
		<dc:creator>MTran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 03:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3175</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Zeolite said:
I do strongly agree that religious or spiritual books and ideas should not be sold or interpreted to the public as scientific fact but in many case those beliefs are part of the history or culture of a site and part of what makes that location nationally significant.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think you&#039;re right about that.  I can&#039;t imagine being able to talk about the settling of Utah &amp; Salt Lake City without prominent coverage of the LDS pioneers &amp; settlers.

As far as &quot;misinformation&quot; being reported from apparently authoritative government sources:  When I worked for federal offices, odd reports would appear from time to time and it wasn&#039;t always easy to figure out how the story got so twisted.  But there were more frequent instances where people  really didn&#039;t comprehend the &quot;question&quot; being asked by a member of the public / media or who genuinely believed they had conveyed accurate information but were completely off base.  

Once the misinformation gets circulated, for some issues, no amount of &quot;clarification&quot; will be accepted by the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Zeolite said:<br />
I do strongly agree that religious or spiritual books and ideas should not be sold or interpreted to the public as scientific fact but in many case those beliefs are part of the history or culture of a site and part of what makes that location nationally significant.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right about that.  I can&#8217;t imagine being able to talk about the settling of Utah &amp; Salt Lake City without prominent coverage of the LDS pioneers &amp; settlers.</p>
<p>As far as &#8220;misinformation&#8221; being reported from apparently authoritative government sources:  When I worked for federal offices, odd reports would appear from time to time and it wasn&#8217;t always easy to figure out how the story got so twisted.  But there were more frequent instances where people  really didn&#8217;t comprehend the &#8220;question&#8221; being asked by a member of the public / media or who genuinely believed they had conveyed accurate information but were completely off base.  </p>
<p>Once the misinformation gets circulated, for some issues, no amount of &#8220;clarification&#8221; will be accepted by the public.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeolite</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3166</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeolite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3166</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that article Eliza. That sits much better with me as representing the that NPS I know and love. I think it was good that the article quoted Director&#039;s Order #6, but there is a lot of legislation (director&#039;s orders are not legislated) which direct the NPS to take into account. The Organic Act and the Antiquities Act both protect national historic and/or cultural resources which may include religious beliefs associated with the history or the culture of a specific location. (Examples, Chaco Culture NHS, Haleakala NP, find many more at www.nps.gov)  I do strongly agree that religious or spiritual books and ideas should not be sold or interpreted to the public as scientific fact but in many case those beliefs are part of the history or culture of a site and part of what makes that location nationally significant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that article Eliza. That sits much better with me as representing the that NPS I know and love. I think it was good that the article quoted Director&#8217;s Order #6, but there is a lot of legislation (director&#8217;s orders are not legislated) which direct the NPS to take into account. The Organic Act and the Antiquities Act both protect national historic and/or cultural resources which may include religious beliefs associated with the history or the culture of a specific location. (Examples, Chaco Culture NHS, Haleakala NP, find many more at <a href="http://www.nps.gov" rel="nofollow">http://www.nps.gov</a>)  I do strongly agree that religious or spiritual books and ideas should not be sold or interpreted to the public as scientific fact but in many case those beliefs are part of the history or culture of a site and part of what makes that location nationally significant.</p>
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		<title>By: MTran</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3127</link>
		<dc:creator>MTran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3127</guid>
		<description>Eliza,

Thanks for posting that link.  This kind of stuff makes you wonder what the employee organization was thinking, or whether it was a ploy for some other grievance.  It doesn&#039;t take much effort for a mistaken or unhappy person to turn out a pretty good news story!

I can see the far-right fundamentalists using this sort of small scale dust-up as evidence of government wide persecution of religion.  Of course, compared to the non-existent &quot;War on Christmas&quot; this is nothing.  Though I doubt you&#039;ll see any of the Christmas Warriors standing down or even bothering to track down the sources of their &quot;war.&quot;

Color me mildly irritated.  I still have uneasy feelings about religious or &quot;spiritual&quot; texts sold on government property.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eliza,</p>
<p>Thanks for posting that link.  This kind of stuff makes you wonder what the employee organization was thinking, or whether it was a ploy for some other grievance.  It doesn&#8217;t take much effort for a mistaken or unhappy person to turn out a pretty good news story!</p>
<p>I can see the far-right fundamentalists using this sort of small scale dust-up as evidence of government wide persecution of religion.  Of course, compared to the non-existent &#8220;War on Christmas&#8221; this is nothing.  Though I doubt you&#8217;ll see any of the Christmas Warriors standing down or even bothering to track down the sources of their &#8220;war.&#8221;</p>
<p>Color me mildly irritated.  I still have uneasy feelings about religious or &#8220;spiritual&#8221; texts sold on government property.</p>
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		<title>By: Eliza</title>
		<link>http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/comment-page-1/#comment-3113</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 05:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/01/03/grand-canyon/#comment-3113</guid>
		<description>Hmm, sounds like PEER&#039;s claims in that press release didn&#039;t stand up to &lt;a href=&quot;http://nationalparkstraveler.typepad.com/national_parks_traveler/2007/01/god_geology_and.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;scrutiny.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, sounds like PEER&#8217;s claims in that press release didn&#8217;t stand up to <a href="http://nationalparkstraveler.typepad.com/national_parks_traveler/2007/01/god_geology_and.html" rel="nofollow">scrutiny.</a></p>
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