Comments on: Jesus Camp

By: Maria

Maria — Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:01:35 +0000

as always, Richard Wake makes good points. I would also add that I too have seen lots of Xtians were really freaked out by this movie…….

By: Richard Wade

Richard Wade — Sun, 29 Jul 2007 07:16:10 +0000

Hi William,
You sound like you’re really pissed off about something. Relax and take a few deep breaths. To be avid is great. To be angry can be self-defeating. Sometimes people become atheists because they’re fed up with how they’ve been mistreated by members of whatever religion they were brought up in. Others let go of their beliefs because they can no longer reconcile the needs of their rational minds with religious dogma. Often these two types have had to go through a very painful process, and sometimes it can leave them bitter. Since you have recently become an atheist you may be still in the midst of such an upheaval. Whatever experiences brought you to your present outlook, if you have a lot of pain and anger it’s best that you take care of it by talking about it with a trusted friend or a professional. Avoid venting it in your discussions with believers. It can undermine your credibility. Your remarks and objections you mentioned above have merit, but your tone comes across as angry and a little frantic. People will discount your points as raving regardless of how logical they may be. To speak convincingly, you have to sound rational, not just have a rational argument. Sadly there are many young, angry atheists who defeat themselves with their own anger, and who inadvertently reinforce negative stereotypes about atheists in general.

You clearly have an ability to argue articulately and persuasively. Temper that with some empathy for the people you’re arguing against. Remember what it was like for you: the good feelings of believing and belonging, and the difficult process of leaving all that behind. Consider what you’re asking them to give up, and be patient and gentle with them. You don’t have to agree with them, or kid them or hold back your argument. Just be respectful of them as persons even if you don’t respect their beliefs.

One last piece of advice, never use any analogy about getting a gun and shooting someone to illustrate any point. It scares the hell out of people and completely discredits your argument. Come up with some less threatening hypothetical scenario.

By: William

William — Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:39:14 +0000

Let me just jump in here, I have recently become an Atheist and I am rapidly becoming a very avid one. And mostly it is because people refer to the Bible and historical in the same sentence. Do any of you realize that by accepting creation, you are denying the prescence of dinosaurs, the Fertile Cresent, the Yellow River civilizations of Ancient China, and basically anything and everything that happened more than 3,000 years ago? I know you are all saying, well that’s just one part of the Bible, oh ya? Well then what leverage does God have over us? And now a lot of you are gonna go to the typical, well God could have put evolution and the Big Bang into motion. Well now you are just minimalizing your “Lord.” And every time you put a limit like that on him you make him smaller and smaller until he’s just the little box that is “God’s plan.” Fate vs. free will is very closely tied in with this argument. What is stopping me from going out right now, buying a gun and shooting someone in the head, hm? “Oh well that’s just God’s plan.” Oh really? So you mean to say you support Adolf Hitler, the guy who shot John Lennon, and Saddam Hussein, because they can’t help it ITS GOD’S PLAN!!! Who are we as Christians to decide that our God is the one who rights the plans? Who are we to lay our fates arbitrarily up to some omniscient force? And when we do things like that, aren’t we denying what makes us human, our constant ability to alter ourselves and to reason? Do we really want to relinquish that to some guy who turns people to salt? May God strike me down!!! Nope…still here, oh well…

By: JustHis

JustHis — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 03:43:52 +0000

Hemant,
My experience with listening to the Osteen’s is a lot of it is centered around the “feel good.” . If you speak wealth and prosperity over your life, you’ll receive it. If you don’t, you won’t. If you truly believe there is good for your life, you will get good. Unfortunately, this doesn’t fall into historical Biblical Christianity. God doesn’t give Christians a magic wand just because they are Christian. We don’t have the power to create whatever we want in our lives, to believe that is ridiculous. Why? Because bad things are going to happen to everyone, we all will get sick and not all of us will be healed. We will die of something someday and we can’t talk our way out of that. We all aren’t supposed to be rich either, so believing in wealth for our lives is a waste of time. If it happens, fine but if it doesn’t then it wasn’t a part of God’s plan for our lives (speaking from a Christian standpoint, realizing you are atheist).

I wouldn’t say that the Osteen’s church is entirely just like Jesus Camp, but there are flaws in both doctrines that don’t align with the Bible…which is supposed to be the guide for Christians. Make sense?

By: Hemant

Hemant — Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:29:21 +0000

JustHis– Are you saying that Joel and Victoria Osteen’s church is in the same realm as the one in Jesus Camp? Maybe both are historically/biblically accurate, but they are quite different from each other…

– Hemant

By: JustHis

JustHis — Tue, 03 Oct 2006 03:20:21 +0000

JayBee, I completely agree with you. I am also a Christian and this movie is as whacky as they get from a religious standpoint. The largest problem is indoctrinating children with these things that don’t even fall into Historical Biblical Christianity. If Christians hold the Bible true, then it’s safe to say they should be practicing with in the guidelines set forth by the Bible! This concept is unrealistic to the evangelical movements that operate like Jesus Camp.

The large problem with Christianity today is movements like these which, unfortunately, comprise most of the Christian population anymore. The tv is smothered with them, in fact Hemant visited one of those churches and had his pic taken with the Pastor and his wife. I bet if we sat down to examine the doctrines of Christian churches, most of them would fall into this very category and little would fall into Historical Biblical Christianity. They manipulate the Bible to say what it wants and they are seeking a “feel good” experience that really doens’t teach them much.

By: JayBee

JayBee — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:26:26 +0000

I am a Christian and a film-maker…and I find this film to be both fascinating and revolting.

It is NOT, contrary to another responder’s opinion, the “true face of xtianity.” This is a look into the extremist fringe, just as any look into Al Qaeda is a look into the extremist fringe of Islam. And to be honest, I find the “Christians” of Jesus Camp almost as scary.

By: oleblue

oleblue — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:50:59 +0000

The anti-intellectual movement is going strong. Actually when you consider that nothing was called christian rock until recently (1980s?)and that people who consider themselves fundies are feed up with the school system, it is no wonder that the “movement” is growing fast, but it is not at scary yet.

At least I hope that I am right.

By: Siamang

Siamang — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:45:31 +0000

It’s a pretty good movie. The kids in it are very cute… much brighter than their parents. I have hope for them.

That lady is SCARY though.

By: KoKoMo Jr

KoKoMo Jr — Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:54:53 +0000

Hemant, this is what I have been saying to you. This is the true face of xtianity